94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Black art sounds right. From what I've read, there is a considerable amount disagreement about droop limiting when it comes to theory vs practice. Just one of those things that one would have to try for themselves.

There is a guy on Acurazine with a 3G TL that is currently experimenting with this. He's at stock ride height with almost zero droop and relatively stiff springs. He had lots of positive feed back about this. He want's to try no droop at all, but he is having a hard time getting the spring perches high enough without a spring compressor.

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=18

Kozy.

Interesting read. While actual experience is great to read, I still like to know the theory as I like to know how and why everything works. Luckily with my model I can dispel a lot of the myth, things like zero droop yanking a wheel up off the tarmac while it is still loaded....

I added a sway bar into my model and measured the twist in roll. With no droop limiting it was 7.54°, with zero droop it was 3.75°. The reduced effort from the bar will probably have some effect on the total roll stiffness and load transfer distribution...

What about if we are only droop limiting one axle? Both axles must roll the same amount or the difference is taken up in chassis twist, so does limiting one end also affect the other?

I have come to two conclusions thus far:
1. This should be in a different thread.
2. Droop limiting is a dynamics minefield and should not be used unless you have a problem and have used up all other options to cure it.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

The "theory" of why it works is that the limiting keeps weight over the limited side instead of allowing so much of it to transfer. The fact that it reduces roll is probably evidence of this. In RC racing, we would reduce rear droop to aid rear traction when off-throttle heading into a turn. Conversely one could reduce front droop to help fix on-power understeer.

I would imagine it's similar to shock rebound tuning except it also has the effect mid-corner of changing geometry (adding camber, reducing roll & lower CG). Probably something that would have to be experimented with on the track to get a full understanding.

But you are correct. This adjustment is not an option for Koni/GC equipped vehicles, so this discussion probably doesn't belong here.

808zrk

I've been driving with my gc 430/350 rates koni yellow eth all around for a few weeks, and I ended up lifting the front end up. I was tucking my fronts a little over half an inch and although it looked pretty, it killed the functionality of my combo. On on ramps I would hear this metal grinding noise and often bottomed out on little bumps and also found my stock uca hitting the shock towers. The threads on the sleeves were about half an inch from bottom to perch, I added 1 inch to that so now its 1 1/2 inches from bottom of threads to perch, and I have no more problems on hard turns and ramps. The gap is around 1.5 finger gap. I plan on lowering it untill I find a right point where its low as it can be without hitting to UCA and bottoming out on every mid sized bump. Im probably tucking an inch in the rear but Ill probably raise it to look even with the front. I was disappointed with the performance of these at first but now Im way happier!

swizz977

maby u need higher spring rates up front? extended top hats??

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

For what? Just to keep a "look"? Don't speak. You have not been able to pick your OWN spring rates or suspension combo so you are in no position to advise anyone.

ADHDsi

iTrader: (2)

Great thread...is there any advantage to running all 4 top hats from GC On the koni/gc kit? After reading the thread seems most just get the front 2.. not sure why...

chargeR

Hopefully someone with first hand experience will chime in, but most say that the rear top hats are not needed because the rear koni shock has a larger amount of bump stroke compared to the front. So the shock will generally not bottom out even at low ride heights so adding bump travel with the extended top mounts is not necessary. EDIT: Also the rear of the car is relatively light so the amount of travel required is less.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Technically, you could get just one pair of top hats and run them in the rear. Then to add compression stroke to the front, you simply omit/modify the brake hose brackets and mount the shocks 3/4" lower in the damper fork. Now you have extra travel at all 4 corners.

For the record, I only have top-hats in the front.

MIALUDE97

what rates to bb6 guys usually run? and whats the cheapest site I could find them? weaksause has them for 925-_-'''

mr.jelly

iTrader: (2)

does GC make a taller spring? i need to stop the rears from popping every time i take a driveway.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

A taller spring won't fix your problem (but yes they do have them). Even if you put a pair in, you would still have to lower the collar by the same amount to maintain your ride height. You will either have to raise the ride height, go with softer spring rates (to keep your ride height), or get extended top-hats. All three of these can reduce the un-sprung droop. You could also get a set of 2.5" Inner diameter Helper springs, but they cost around $250 or more with the couplers.



Another thing that can help is adding a rear sway-bar if you don't already have one. This keeps the wheel from drooping further should the spring come completely unloaded (typically on driveways or race track corner entry).

mr.jelly

iTrader: (2)

i have extended top hats on all for corners, and i don't really want to shell out 250 for my DD. looks like i'll just deal for now. thanks

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I've really wanted helper springs on my Civic ever since I installed GC's back in ~2000. And like you I simply cannot justify the price for literally ZERO performance benefit. If the prices was around $99 for the set of 4, I think people would be much more likely to purchase them.

Do you already have sway-bars on the car?

mr.jelly

iTrader: (2)

Yes. The popping must be one of the perks of riding slammed

Mhollaek9

People from NY aka pothole city ... what rates do you run? I have a hatch running 16x7 wheels 205/45 tires... looking to do like a 2inch-2.5inch drop but something to handle these NY streets.

Thanks

FlewByU352

450F/400R but I just rode in a EK with 550F/450R and it was not unbearable at all. Firm ride yes, but harsh? No way in hell. Kinda made me wish I went with higher rates but I think I will benefit in areas with the softer rates when the back roads get rough and choppy.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

The softest you should go is the standard rates. 3xx front and 250 rear. You are still going to loose ride quality just from being low. Maybe go with a touring tire instead of a performance tire.

Mhollaek9

so if im understanding right, you want a softer rate when dealing with a harsh type of road?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

absolutely. Especially if it's only a street car. You only need those stiff stiff rates IF...

- Your going racing
- Your going REALLY low

FlewByU352

Well I finally got my ride report on 450/400. Feels great, not harsh at all. I'd say perfect for a spirited driver/daily driver. I retained the same height on all corners which is about a 1.5"-2" drop that I had 280/180 springs to kind of hold me over until I get the rest of my parts in to schedule an alignment. I plan on being about 2.5" lowered up front and 2" lowered in the rear with no extended top hats. I'm going to get stock fender to hub measurements and post them up so we can all measure off of that for a real comparison purposes. Finger gap and height off the ground is rubbish because of tire sizes.

liam821

I run 600/900# springs/GC sleeves with custom valved Bilstein shocks and GC tophats all around. Its a 100% roadrace car, but still handles and rides extremely well for being so stiff. Its very compliant and very comfortable on most roads...although over large bumps its not very fun. With such a stiff rear I probably don't need to run the top hats in the rear but I haven't had a problem using them. I don't have any issues with bottoming out my suspension although i'm planning on upgrading to 900/1200# soon once I finish putting on all my new aero parts.

ribal_gh

Ohhh, spent more than 1 hour reading the thread and didnt find what i wanted to know..hope some one can help.
I live outside the US, planning to get an GC/ koni set.
Got a civic si 00, 16 inch wheels,205/45 tires. Wants to go low for almost 1 finger gap in between the tire and fender.
I care more for a nice looking and comfort ride than a racing one.
Spring rates planing to get are 380F/280R... anybody got the same setup?
Will it be rubbing on turns or bumps if im low with 1 finger gap?
Will it have a harsh ride?
I dont want to buy this set up and regret!

thanks for any help.

FlewByU352

I'm on 205/45/16 on essentially an EM1 with 450/400 and it is NOT harsh at all! I did too much reading where people say OTS GC rates are the max for comfort on the road. I've also read that 350lb rear are harsh but then you read something contradicting it. My biggest regret is not going with stiffer rates like 500/450. Higher rate front springs are not noticeable since more than 60% of the weight is up front. If you want a 1 finger gap then please go with at least 450lb front and 350lb rear, you will not be disappointed.

tron_

I'm planning on running a 1 finger gap and went with 450F/350R (although I will be running a 17" wheel). From what I have read I should be fine so I think you should be good with rates similar to mine too!