NA95d16z6

Very simple question.

-What does spring rate mean.....
-difference between Linear and Progressive....

Edit: dont be a dick, I dont know and im asking the question so my knowledge is furthered.

PIC Performance

The term spring rate refers to the amount of force required to compress the spring a certain distance, so its expressed in terms of force/distance. Commonly kg/mm or lbs/in, and most of the time the spring rate is abbreviated to just the measure of force, kg or lbs. So a 10kg spring requires 10kg's of force to compress the spring 1mm.
Linear rate springs mean that the entire coil has the same spring rate, while a progressive rate spring has two or more different spring rates within one coil. Linear rate springs provide more predictable handling characteristics and are preferred for track use, while progressive rate springs provide better ride quality (I *think*). You can usually tell the difference between the two because the linear rate spring's coils are evenly spaced, while the progressive rate spring's coils will vary have two or more different distances between coils.

NA95d16z6

like when you look at an eibach the coil is and inch apart at one spot and like 1/4 inch at the other end.

so do progressives get stifer when they compress more??

PIC Performance

Yes, once enough force has been applied to completely compress the softer spring rate portion, the spring will then switch over to the stiffer spring rate. The point where you have completely compressed the softer rate and switch to the stiffer rate is called the transition point. Obviously, 2 diff spring rates = 1 transition point, and 3 diff spring rates = 2 and so on. The purpose is to maintain a comfortable ride for daily driving on the soft springs, but have the stiff spring portion for spirited cornering and what not.

NA95d16z6

so how do you know what the spring rate for the different portions are?

PIC Performance

I think a manufacturer will usually list the rates that a progressive spring has. Like 450-500 or something, so it takes 450lbs to compress to the transition point, then 500 afterwards.

NA95d16z6

but eibach only lists one rate but their springs are progressive

PIC Performance

Can't help you there, then. It would make sense to list the rates that the progressive spring has, but perhaps they have another method of showing them.

NA95d16z6

thanx for your help. its been much appreciated

PIC Performance

Not a problem! Hopefully some of our more knowledgeable members can chime in as well, they probably have a good bit to contribute.

eMpAtHy

call eibach and talk to them about it.

JohnnyWash1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VNCHNZO_95d16z6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but eibach only lists one rate but their springs are progressive</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not all of them. The sportline is linear, while the pro-kit is progressive. Do a search and you will find the rates for the pro-kit. The pro-kit is decidedly an amateur rate, as it is the lowest amongst aftermarket springs. The sportline offers more drop and more rate.

Tyson

speaking for an EF, stock springs the fronts are linear and the rears are linear. even on eibach's street springs, kits like sportlines and prokits, usually are linear for the front springs and progressive in the rear like oem.

for their race springs, which you see on ground control adjustable coilover kits are almost always linear.

spring rates are simple in theory. you apply some force, the spring compresses some amount. the ratio to force vs compression is the spring rate. if that rate is constant no matter the amount of compression, then its linear. if the rate changes, its progressive.

i dunno if you would call prokits amateur. they offer good street rides with just the right amount of drop.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

In this image below (sourced from Ground-Control-Store.com), you can see the numbers printed on the side of this Eibach racing "tender" spring. The numbers read 225/250/200. 225 is the springs free length* (2.25"), 250 is the springs inner diameter (2.50"), and 200 is the springs rate in lbs/in.

*The first number has a different designation when reading a Tender spring (see next post)...



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Noob4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Like 450-500 or something, so it takes 450lbs to compress to the transition point, then 500 afterwards. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It would actually mean the spring rate is 450 lbs/in until the transition point. The transition point could be at any amount of weight (not just 450 lbs). The way a progressive spring works is the coil pitch is vaired so that one group of coils are closer to eachother than the rest. The overall spring is still long & soft though. As weight is add to the soft spring the closer coils will touch eachother (its called "coil-bind"), and that portion of the spring no longer functions. This effectivly makes a shorter coil that is much harder to compress. Depending on how many coils are put close together, is how they control the transition point.

Here is an example of a progressive tender spring:



Modified by 94eg! at 5:04 PM 5/4/2005

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

When looking at the numbers on those "Tender" springs. The first number is actually the amount of travel the spring has before it becomes fully compressed. This ONLY applies to Tender springs. When viewing the numbers on regular coilover or helper springs, the first number is the free (uncompressed) height...

Sorry for any mix up...

FYI:
A "tender" spring is desinged to sit on top of the main spring to create a custom progressive spring rate that you can change out whenever you want.

A "helper" spring installs the exact same way as a tender, but is super soft & is fully compressed all the time. It's only job is to keep the main spring seated when the suspension is at full droop.


Modified by 94eg! at 5:02 PM 5/4/2005

JohnnyWash1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dunno if you would call prokits amateur. they offer good street rides with just the right amount of drop.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They are the softest rates offered by Eibach and fall in the same category when compared to the rest of the aftermarket. They are also progressive, making them not suitable for competitive track use.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Noob4life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think a manufacturer will usually list the rates that a progressive spring has. Like 450-500 or something, so it takes 450lbs to compress to the transition point, then 500 afterwards. </TD></TR></TABLE>

noob, could you stop giving out mis information?

Tyson

who mentioned anything about competitive track use? why is it always about competitive track use.....

JohnnyWash1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who mentioned anything about competitive track use? why is it always about competitive track use..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Amateur = opposite of competitive track use

I chose the word amateur for a reason---to show that it would be a good beginner setup for the track and good for the street. Quit bustin my *****.

bad-monkey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnnyWash1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Amateur = opposite of competitive track use

I chose the word amateur for a reason---to show that it would be a good beginner setup for the track and good for the street. Quit bustin my *****.</TD></TR></TABLE>

to bust your ***** some more :

my "competitive track" experiences, while more demanding than driving to work, are definitely "amateur." no one's paying me to drive, and i drive like a monkey on crack, so i think there's definitely a competition category in the "amateur" ranks.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JohnnyWash1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not all of them. The sportline is linear, while the pro-kit is progressive. </TD></TR></TABLE>

pro kits are linear up front, progressive in the rear. just like stock. im pretty sure sport lines are the same as well.

JohnnyWash1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

pro kits are linear up front, progressive in the rear. just like stock. im pretty sure sport lines are the same as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just looked into that and apparently both setups are progressive---at least in their speak. I had no idea--I stand corrected (or sit, whatever).


Jon

PIC Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would actually mean the spring rate is 450 lbs/in until the transition point. The transition point could be at any amount of weight (not just 450 lbs).</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is what I meant to say

vtecvoodoo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In this image below (sourced from Ground-Control-Store.com), you can see the numbers printed on the side of this Eibach racing "tender" spring. The numbers read 225/250/200. 225 is the springs free length (2.25"), 250 is the springs inner diameter (2.50"), and 200 is the springs rate in lbs/in.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong. On the tenders, the first number is the travel, not the free length like the other ERS springs

PIC Performance

Could you not be a dick? It was tired as hell and my brain was/still is fried, I was only trying to help the guy.