mattvivsound

Looking to upgrade my suspension and I have some ideals on what I want to do… but in researching, I have some questions. Give me some input on my game plan. I do have a budget of $2000, plus/minus a couple hundred.

I have a ’99 Civic DX hatchback with a B20B swap. This isn’t going to be a purpose built car, it does have to be versatile as 90% of the time it’ll be on the street cruising and commuting; but a couple times a year, I would like to take it out to the Road Course track and/or Auto-X events and I might see myself at the drag strip a few times a year. Any of the racing would be for Fun Runs for my own enjoyment.

Currently (bought this way), my car is rolling on a set of beat struts with coil over sleeves (unknown brand, no labels). And with the chassis being ~18 years old and having ~190K miles on it, it’s time for a refresh. I don’t have any problems putting it up on jack stands for a few weeks while I rebuild the suspension.

Bushings: Energy Suspensions Hyper-Flex master kit.

Front Sway Bars: Since the DXs didn’t come with any provisions for a sway bar mount, I’ll need to locate another set of the Lower Control Arms. Once choosing the LCAs, it’ll determine the front sway bar I’ll run, because with the…
- EX LCAs: I can run the 26mm Eibach sway bar kit.
- SI LCAs: I can run the 26mm CTR or SI sway bar, but I would also need to locate a set of stamped steel shock forks.
With being able to run the same size front bar, I am leaning towards the EX LCA; as they’ll be much easier to find. Or are there any significant/noticeable/performance advantages that would make me want to run the SI LCAs instead.

Rear Sway Bar/Subframe kit: I’ve got an aftermarket set of Rear LCA with sway mount holes. I’m looking at 3 options:
- ASR; 24mm with Subframe brace
- ASR with Eibach 17mm rear sway
- Whiteline; 22mm with Subframe Brace
I’m leaning towards the ASR Subframe & Sway bar kit; but at the same time, I can get the ASR Brace and order the Eibach Front & Rear sway kit and have a set of matching sway bars.


Shocks/Struts, Coils & Coilovers: I’m currently sitting at 12” wheel center up to fender lip at all 4 corners, so I am not sure how much it has been lowered. I hear stock is anywhere between 13”-14.5”, so I guess I have anywhere between 1”-2.5” drop. Without having solid measurements, I’m looking at staying with an Adjustable Sleeve/Coilover as I do like the height the car currently sits at. I am looking at 3 options:
- Ground Control with Koni Yellow (with 430f/350r or 430f/430r springs)
- Ground Control with KYB AGX (same spring rates)
- Progress CS-II (with 450f/350r or 450f/450r springs)
This is one of my tougher decisions on the parts, because I hear nothing but good from both set-ups. Which set-up would you go with?Sorry for being so long, I hope this thread will help me in my decision making process.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Koni Yellows properly support a drop of about 1.25ish inches from stock, depending on your model. CX's sit a bit higher than EX's because of weight differences, for example. You don't want to use them for an agressive drop (1.5" or more is an agressive drop).

Extended hats might get you to the 1.5ish or 2" drop range and still maintain shock shaft travel. But be careful about your UCA's hitting the shock tower.

You definitely want to pay attention to how much shock travel you're using, and where the UCA ends up.

Or just YOLO slam it and post it on Instagram ALL DAY ZERO PROBLEMS FOR 8 YEARS LIKE THAT BRO.

Koni/GC....or....really any other system will require some attention to detail while installing it, in order to get proper results.

Note the word "proper". "Favourable" or "good AF" or "dope ***" are also interchangeable for the word "proper", in this context.

mattvivsound

That's why I posted my Wheel Hub to Fender Lip measurements of ~12". I'm not looking to go any lower.
I haven't noticed my UCA's hitting the shock tower.
I know with Coilovers, it's not a unbolt and rebolt in system. Lots of tweaking to get it sitting level.

KoRn_vIRuZ

I'd recommend Honda OEM bushings for durability and comfort on the street.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

getting them sitting even is easy. But you also would want to make sure the shocks themselves have enough travel to actually work.

98civdx

Here's the setup on my 98 civic. I will say, it's well above your 2k budget.
F: AMR coilovers 550lb
SI front sway bar.
PIC bushings
No camber kit

R: AMR coilovers, 650lb
ASR bar, stock LCA's, Eibach 17mm bar
PIC bushings.
SPC toe arms.
Washer trick, 2 thin washers.
Car sits at -2 - 2.1 all around


I would recommend taking a look at a hard rubber bushing kit. The ES master "kit" comes with a bunch of worthless ****. I had it, and hated it.

Koni/gc is a fantastic, tried and true setup. Personally, I would go with the 450/430 rates if that's what your set on. The 350 will provide a bit more comfort though.

AndyM360

From my experience keep it simple.

Hardrace Full Bushing Kit
ASR or AMR Rear Swaybar w/ Function 7 Rear Subframe Brace
PIC, AMR, GC/Koni depending on your budget, and needs
PCI Front, and Rear Camber Kit

You'll be set good.

mattvivsound

Oh... I get what your saying. I'll add some "Extended Top Hats" into the parts list. I wasn't sure with the relationship with the 12" Hub to Lip measurement being to low; with a 205/40/16, I've got about 1.5" of tread to fender lip gap.

Matt_EH3

To be honest, if you are planning to compete/do HPDEs, I would keep the upgrades related to the front sway bar for last.

Most of the people I know that run 90's Civics used to have one and then proceded to remove it later on. I was one of the last people standing with a front sway bar and I have taken it out this summer.

The fsb will improve your initial steering response/entry feel, but will wreak havoc on exit traction, even with an LSD. Steering response can be adjusted with front toe alignment.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

Here is what I would suggest after going through all the suspension evolutions on my 99 hatch over the last 16 or so years. I went with koni/ground control 550f/450r coilovers. Asr's 24mm rear bar and brace setup. On my car I have civic si/CTR lower control arms and sway bar but it's not what I would recommend to others. If you are wanting a front sway bar I would go with the civic ex lower control arms and sway bar. If you ever decide to do spherical bearings in the front the options are very limited for the stamped control arms. Plus the ex bar and lca's should be cheaper and more readily available. Camber kit would not be necessary for your goals. Only shimming the rear upper control arms at most. Also top hats would not be necessary for your ride height either. Bumps stops on my car are about 2" long and the tire will hit the spine in the wheel well before the shock completely bottoms out.(205/45-16) If you want to have more shock travel or a longer bump stop you can slide the shock down in the fork for a couple more inches of shock travel.

I did the hyper flex kit on my car and would not recommend it. There is really a very minimal improvement especially for the effort to install them They squeek and many of the bushings disintegrated after 5 years or so. All I have left of the kit is the the flca compliance bushing and front uca bushings. All the rest broke down and crumbled away. If I were to do it again I would just leave the stock bushings in until I was ready to do spherical bearings. Hope this helps.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

My simple/effective setup on my ITR(s) was:
-Harder rear springs than front springs. I used Koni/GC...but would likely use PIC or AMR today.
-Stock ITR sway bars (JDM rear bar).
-225/45/15 front and 205/50/15 rear tyres.
-Skunk2 front camber kit set around -3.x deg.
-Track time.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Integra front bar will not work correctly on the "EK" chassis. I definitely prefer the Si/CTR style heim joint endlinks compared to the bushing stack lengths that are used on the other Civic models. I also, for street car setups at least, prefer to use the 26mm front bar... it keeps the turn-in snappy and lets me run a slightly softer spring to keep some bump compliance in the front. Getting onto the track and adding track-oriented tires changes that formula obviously (and as stated above). A stock ITR/CTR bar in the rear will provide all of the roll stiffness you need back there.

I'd take the AGXs off of your list and consider adding something a step higher than the GC/Koni or Progress stuff. Seems like AMR has gotten his business sorted out and is filling orders these days, the stuff at Fortune Auto has also piqued my interest lately. By the time you add top hats and custom rates to the GC/Koni setup I think you'll find yourself in the same ballpark as the more proper coilover setups.

mattvivsound

HPDEs; as a new guy to the track, I do plan taking an Instructional course. then tracks that I've been looking at (within 2 hrs) around Washington DC and each track offers some sort of intro to the track/training session.

The suspension upgrade might end up being done in a couple stages, I picked up a complete set of Rear Disk lower arms off an Integra LS; so now planning on doing an Integra Brake upgrade as well and a couple things have gotten pushed back into a Step 2.
I have used Energy Suspension products in the past on different vehicles and didn't have any issues with their products.

Step 1:
- EX/SI steering knuckles, Integra DC calipers and 10.3" Disks,
- 15/16" Master Cylinder
- "EX" lower control arms
- Braided brake lines (OE Style cost the same)
- Bushings (replace all old OE worn out bushing with Poly, build own kit)
- Ground Controls (430f/350r)
- Koni Yellow or KYB AGX
- Camber UCA & Rear Links

Step 2:
- Sway Bars (leaning towards: Eibach front, ASR rear
- Rear Subframe Brace: ASR (going with brace & sway kit)
- Other Random Parts.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Go straight to the 1" master cylinder from a 98-01 Integra. It's configured the same as your stock one and bolts right in (I'm actually sitting at my desk with one in my hands now).

ShinsenTuner

iTrader: (1)

I can confirm 1" MC fitment, its in my EK without any bending or reflaring to work. Wood do it again.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

On the subject of brakes, I wouldn't recommended using the integra front calipers. I would advise using civic si/ex front calipers. The pistons are larger on the integra calipers and it causes the car to become too front biased. Also when you do the integra 1" master cylinder use the integra brake booster as well. The civic one does not provide enough assist if using this setup.

mattvivsound

I noticed in Pre-97 and 98+ switch designs.

mattvivsound

I'm a little confused (read 16 pages on BrakeExperts). I thought using the Civic Booster and 15/16" MC with Integra calipers was a good combo?
Also, I don't have ABS.

Matt_EH3

I have run Integra fronts for a long time with 93 Si stock rears and it was a great combo. With any Civic rear disk, your bias will be just fine. Just make sure you have at least a 15/16 MC with the matching booster (or go 1" with the matching booster; don't forget the booster) and a 4040 prop valve.

Heck, I am even running ITR brakes in the front now and I kept the rears stock. I even have to put in lower quality pads back there to keep the rear from locking up. I never understood why anyone would want to upgrade the rear to anything.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that, before you start swapping parts around, don't forget that steel braided lines, proper fluid and good brake pads will go a long way.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Early model DC Integras had different master cylinders. They are clocked differently than yours and the ports are located differently.

Example, 96 Integra RS, ~40° clocking and both ports to LH side, 15/16" (no abs):



96 GS-R, LS/SE - slightly different clocking iirc, ports on alternate sides, 1" (abs equipped):



98+ changed the clocking to horizontal for all models and moved to a larger reservoir design with a port for each piston of the cylinder, one port on top/front and one on the RH side. This is the configuration that will bolt up to your Civic booster.

98 RS, 15/16", ports on alternating sides (no abs), the rest of the models were 1". I can't remember exactly, but I think the RS was dropped after '98 and all models had the 1" after that.


No need to change the prop valve, the 96-00 cars equipped with 9.5" fronts and rear drums already have the same prop valve as the rear disc equipped cars.

I've been getting a refresh on all of this stuff lately as I pile up parts to do a new brake setup on my '00 LX. It's been years and I got a little rusty on what fits what.

Lastly, I would consider your brake project a separate project from your suspension project, if you don't want to put too much strain on your budget.

mattvivsound

I noticed the changes on the MCs throughout the years. The 98+ EX w/ ABS is another one that uses the 15/16" MC. I haven't looked in detail about it, but possiblity that the CRV is another candidate for a 15/16" MC as it looks VERY similar as well to the Civics. The Accord also has a 15/16", same mounting points, but its brake line come off the sides instead of the side & top.

As for the budget, I'm not buying all the parts in 1 day and it'll be spread out over a couple months. I just can't justify spending $2k+ on just a set of coil-overs on 18 year old suspension with 200k miles. For this time, I am looking as something good and economical. I've got a set of cheap coil-overs (came with car) on their now.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

Using the integra booster and master combo has a better pedal feel. You could use a 15/16 master and civic booster but the pedal throw will be longer vs the integra setup. Integra calipers are NOT a good match for rear discs using the ek hatch proportioning valve. Using civic ex/si calipers emulates the civic si setup since the civic si uses the same prop valve as the hatch. I have used integra calipers on my hatch for a few years before I learned the civic calipers were different. Using integra calipers the pedal is softer, and will lock up the front tires long before the rears are doing anything.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

The difference between your setup and what we're working with is that you are able to use an integra proportioning valve on the older generation civic. We are not able to effectively use one without remaking all the brake lines on our chassis.

mattvivsound

This is the proportioning valve on my Civic:


It's much different than the 4040's in the earlier generations.