Chim Chim

I recently swapped rear trailing arms from a 99 civic to a 97 civic. I took the whole trailing arm and compensator arms. I got an alignment and with the adjuster supposedly maxed out, I still have some toe out in the right rear.

The 2 previous owners havent had any alignment issues with the trailing arms.

I'm thinking its safe to assume that nothing is bent and that the alignment rack at particular alignment shop I went to is out of cal, coz physically looking at the rear of the car and looking above the right rear tire, it seems the tire is pointed inward.

I'll try a different shop in the chain first since I have an alignment plan.

My question is, what are your thoughts about a toe adjuster if the next alignment shop can't get back into spec?

BlueIntegraBoy

iTrader: (5)

If you can't get it within specs, you'll need a toe adjuster like the Mfactory one.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1872781

Chim Chim

I've been reading mixed threads about them, and I was curious what are the effects of using toe adjusters if needed.

I did read one thing about toe adjusters affecting dynamic toe, but I don't understand what that means or what makes it important to worry about it.

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chim Chim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've been reading mixed threads about them, and I was curious what are the effects of using toe adjusters if needed.

I did read one thing about toe adjusters affecting dynamic toe, but I don't understand what that means or what makes it important to worry about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Since those type of adjusters change the length of the arm, they will change the toe curve of the rear suspension. If you have one arm set longer than the other, then you won't even have an equal toe curve left to right.

Chim Chim

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Since those type of adjusters change the length of the arm, they will change the toe curve of the rear suspension. If you have one arm set longer than the other, then you won't even have an equal toe curve left to right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh okay, I think I understand what you're saying.

I'm thinking about knocking out two birds with one stone by finding another trailing arm with a rear disc spindle so I can just swap over the rotor and caliper, and bracket assy since the wheel bearing is starting to make noise on my problem trailing arm and see where that gets me alignment wise.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chim Chim &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recently swapped rear trailing arms from a 99 civic to a 97 civic. I took the whole trailing arm and compensator arms. </TD></TR></TABLE>

typically, youre not supposed to change out the compensator arms.

but im not sure if 97 and 99's would be different. i would have just left your old compensator arms in.

Chim Chim

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

typically, youre not supposed to change out the compensator arms.

but im not sure if 97 and 99's would be different. i would have just left your old compensator arms in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The compensator arms are the same. I only did the swap including compensator arms coz the donor compensator arms were practically brand new whereas the rest of the bushings on my car are showing a fair ammount of wear.

Converting to rear disc brakes was just the bonus... The only setback to the situation is the worn wheel bearing, and a possibly bent arm or incompetent alignment shop/out of cal alignment rack. Considering the 2 previous users of these trailing arms never had alignment issues and it was my first time going to that alignment shop, I'm leaning more towards an incompetent alignment shop/out of cal alignment rack.

Tyson

i wouldnt rule out a bent trailing arm just because the person who sold it to you said it was fine for him and the guy he bought it from...

go to another alignment shop in any case.

Chim Chim

I'm good friends with both people that were using these trailing arms before me, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'll try a different alignment shop and see if they can get it back to spec. If the shop can get it back to spec, I'll probably just replace the hub bearing assy, if not, I may buy another arm from the junkyard and swap all the brake hardware over and hope the bearing is good.

Chim Chim

I got another alignment today and the rear toe was brought back into spec without any special tricks, so I'm assuming it's not a bent trailing arm.

So now i'm back to my initial problem of a roughly half degree difference of caster in the front... The tech said it's causing the car to wander right when you let go of the steering wheel. When you hold the wheel straight, the car drives straight, so not much argument there...

Any suggestions on how to tweak the caster without getting a caster/camber kit?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

If your caster is different from one side to the other, you DEFINITELY have a bent arm in there. You can pretty easily figure out which one it is by reading the alignment specs and simply looking at the car from the side...

My CRX's current condition is .5* caster on the right side (should be 3*). From the side, I can clearly see the right wheel is pushed rearward in the wheel well (definitely no longer centered). The only way to move the wheel rearward and reduce caster is to bend the LCA backward.


- If one side has less caster than you should, and the wheel is pushed rearward, you have a bent LCA
- If one side has less caster than you should, and the wheel is pushed forward, you have a bent UCA
- If one side has more caster than you should, and the wheel is pushed forward, you have a bent LCA (or radius rod)
- If one side has more caster than you should, and the wheel is pushed rearward, you have a bent UCA

A bent knuckle can push the wheel forward or backward, but it won't really mess up caster as it only moves the upper ball-joint and lower ball-joint ever so slightly closer together. It usually results in bad camber settings.

A bent tie-rod will pretty much only effect toe. And once it's re-adjusted, you won't even know it's bent.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your caster is different from one side to the other, you DEFINITELY have a bent arm in there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

not necessarily. chassis just get bent out of shape due to time and age of bushings and whatnot.

half a degree of cross caster is not a big deal. i wouldnt worry about it.

Chim Chim

alignment settings as of now are:

front
caster
left - 1.75*
right - 1.21*

camber
left - -1.67*
lright - -1.95*

toe
left - 0.00
right - -0.02

rear
camber
left - -1.14*
right - -1.18*

toe
left - 0.04*
right - 0.07*

I replaced both knuckes a little over a month ago to upgrade to 10.3" front brakes. I replaced the right front lower control arm back in December when I had the right front tire blow out while exiting an offramp and I hopped a small 3" ~ 4" curb from the extreme hard right pull the blowout created. The stock UCAs I'm using right now weren't involved in the mishap.

Could the replacement front right LCA be bent as well? Would a tweaked subframe cause this as well? Maybe worn bushings?

I took a look at the car and the right wheel seems like it could be pushed back maybe an 1/8" tops. I used the mudguards and a contour on the front bumper as reference and measured roughly 3 fingers in the front and 3 fingers in the rear of the tire. the left front is pretty even and on the right side it's a little bit of a tighter squeeze in between the rear of the tire and fender. It was kind of hard trying to eyeball using a measuring tape but I did get roughly 13 3/8" +/- 1/8" from the front bumper to center of the center caps...

It's been a love/hate situation ever since I got this car for a daily and I appreciate everyone's response(s)

Chim Chim

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

not necessarily. chassis just get bent out of shape due to time and age of bushings and whatnot.

half a degree of cross caster is not a big deal. i wouldnt worry about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was my initial thought considering holding the wheel straight makes the car drive straight... But when I let go it'll start to wander right...

On the same note, the tech did recommend getting a caster/camber adjuster... The only one I found that doesn't mess with arm to shock tower clearance too much is the whiteline camber/caster kit. They even make some bushing for the LCA that adds +0.66* caster...

Tyson

rear toe is off. most likely the cause of steering being off.

but really, if it goes straight, its fine. wandering can be due to the crown of the road. its not a big deal.


Modified by Tyson at 4:27 PM 5/9/2007