MadcapAlex99

Was kinda looking for something a little dual purpose for daily use plus the occasional auto x weekend once some more upgrades are done, but I will definitely keep these suggestions in mind. Any idea what the spring rates would be when you say "soft"?

boxedfox

So one of the things I don't like ST Suspensions is that they don't publish their spring rates for a lot of their applications. You have to rely on people who have put them on a spring tester and measured the rates themselves. Usually those are either curious autocrossers or bored circle track guys.

For reference though, the springs off of an ST X coilover for an FA / FG Civic dyno around 240 lb-f/in front, 300 lb-f/in rear. The Tein Street Basis Z for the same car comes with springs that are something like 336 lb-f/in / 448 lb-f/in. The black springs that come with most Tein coilovers tend to have slightly lower than the rates than they advertise, but even if you lopped off a few lb-f/in you're talking about a 25-30% difference in spring rate.

25-30% is huge. In the context of track / auto-x use, I can tell you that when we change springs in our race cars, we make changes in 10% intervals. That's about what it takes for a moderately experienced driver to be able to tell the difference in a blind test. A change of 25-30% usually involves revalving the dampers.

Based on similar stories I'm hearing from the late model BMW crowd I'd expect a 20-30% lower rate compared to other popular coilover applications in the same price range.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Teins (except for the new Z line) are made in Japan.

Dual purpose coilovers that ride well when taken out of the box don't exist for under $1500ish.

Off the shelf Koni with high enough spring rates to work on a track won't ride all that brilliantly on the road.

Tein's twin tube shocks are all lazy in the slow speed region of the damping. So you have to crank them up to make them not floaty. So you only have a narrow band of settings that work for comfort while also properly damping bumps.

Most twin tubes are lazy. Konis just have a better damping curve.

ST-X don't ride as well as the street advance in my own experience. Lots of complaints on the internet about KW's ride quality and overall quality. I liked my KW's for my S2000 and they lasted for me. For other people, they leaked and required warranty work often.

Didn't like my ST-X for my TSX at all. The ride was choppy and the stupid plastic spring collar for the front shock degraded within 6 months and the springs started making tons of noise.

Plus, the STX is zinc plated. They put salt on the roads in Canada. Bad combination.

Teins are less likely to leak or wear out than anything by KW, in my experience.

MadcapAlex99

So at the end of the day, would you recommend Koni over Tein? I'm personally leaning away from Tein's complete system so that I can have the ability to change the spring out for a stiffer spring for track weekend and then back to a softer one for street use when I start doing some auto x, since I wont being going to the track every single weekend.

boxedfox

There's a lot made of the double-digressive piston behavior of Koni dampers and how beneficial that is for ride comfort and response. I spent a lot of time studying suspension damping and I'm not convinced that it's true. A lot of autocrossers like it because a fast ramp on low speed helps feel the car at low speeds. But if you time the cars they're no faster and on the street they feel no more comfortable. That said, if you want that behavior KW and ST dampers are valved to achieve a very similar curve.


Oh don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I don't like about KW dampers either. They use delicate seals and they have mediocre QC. I've seen some V3s show up with like no gas pressure in them. The Asian damper companies, including some of the cheap Chinese and Taiwanese ones, produce more consistent product damper to damper. And the Teins are much more durable.

That said, I live in an area where street salt, snow, and rust is a problem and the newer STs seem to hold up just fine in this weather. The thread on the adjusters can stick but the bodies don't corrode as badly as other dampers. My recommendation for these (and pretty much any other coilover sleeves) is to spray them down with Boeshield T-9 every time the wheels are off. That keeps them from rusting and sticking.

Ride wise STX is valved the same way as KW V1s for most applications. I personally don't love the feeling of the shocks overpowering the springs on a street car, but a lot of people find that comfortable. Plus they come with softer springs and come in at a very competitive price. That's why I'd lean that way for someone who is primarily interested in street use.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, if you're planning on using a buncha different springs, then Koni/GC will work great.

Soft street springs for comfort. And a bunch of different rates for track/autocross use.

Best to get alignments every time And make sure in your ability to do basic math and measurements.

MadcapAlex99

General question here, after reading another post. Does wheel size have any effect on lowering? I currently have 17" rims when stock is 14" but my low profile tires make the wheels the exact same size as stock (same circumference and width). I also do use winter tires which use the original 14" steelies, but again, the winters and the summers are the same size overall.

Snappy

How much lower are you actually looking to go? If you lower your car 2+ inches on stock shocks, you're going to tear the tires/wheel wells up. If you save up for a coil over setup, you will A) have a stiffer spring rate/strut combo that will avoid rubbing & bottoming out, and B) you will have the ability to raise or lower your car after you test the results in ride quality, tire contact, etc...