MadcapAlex99

Hey all, this is my first post on here so here we go.

I'm going to be replacing the shocks on my Civic and I also was looking into lowering it but I'm not sure if I should go for a full coilover system or if just a sleeve and shock or even just a lowering spring and shock will do for what I want. I'm not tracking the car at the moment and it is my dd. I'm simply looking for some advice on the pros and cons to lowering springs, coilover sleeves, and the full coilover systems. If I need to put any more information, I can

egsleepercivic

Hey did you check this thread ?

https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspen...ility-2967499/

MadcapAlex99

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

Since you probably didn't read that thread, here is the most important part:

Read the entire post. There is no way you can claim that thread is unhelpful.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Pros and cons are based on opinion and intent of goal.

What kind of car do you have? There's lots of kinds of Civics in many years and trim levels.

How far do you want to drop it?

Why are you lowering it?

In 2018, I can't really see an advantage to lowering springs on a civic. Unless you only want to spend $200 and keep your stock shocks until they wear out.

Caoboy

MadcapAlex99

It's a 1997 Civic Hatch, the shocks are already worn out and is the reason why im looking for new ones. I wanted to lower it to possibly give me better handling and cornering, plus, I like the look of lowered cars. I would probably lower it 1 or 2 inches or maybe to minimal gap without tire tuck, and I would by no means be slamming the car to the ground. Cost is not that big of issue for me, besides the exchange I end up paying for being in Canada. I was thinking of doing a shock and sleeve setup (for the ability to change shocks and/or springs later on) but I was just unsure if I should just go for a complete system.

Caoboy

MadcapAlex99

I've seen pretty much EVERYONE say that so I was seriously considering that based on all the good praise that setup has received

Caoboy

MadcapAlex99

Oh wow, that does sound like exactly I want from a setup. Thanks

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Koni and GC will work great with up to like a 1.25 or 1.38" drop. The shocks are the same length as stock. A 2" drop will work...but its not brilliant. They're excellent shocks.
They will rust to peices in Canada, though

Tein Street Advances are a good low cost option too. *Should* be fine up to maybe 1.5" drop, or a little lower. And they won't rust for a while.

MadcapAlex99

Good to know, I'm glad to see what others think. 1.75" to 2" drop is about the range I'm looking for, but I don't want it to rust and then have the adjustability seize up on me :/
I was also told that Tein is pretty good, but according to a post made on here they don't seem too good. Then again, I was also told that Skunk2 coilovers are really good by an aftermarket store around here...

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

Tein is considered bottom of the list as far as quality and performance in Japan, like Junk 2 here in the US.

Koni/GC would be the best budget option for anything beyond street use. If you want just a drop, get some used lowering springs, not cheap sleeves, KYB Excel G or Koni orange struts and a cheap pair of ebay extended top hats with Energy Suspension replacement bushings if you get a spring that lowers more than 1.5".

Used springs $75-150
New KYB/Koni oranges struts around $250
Top hats and bushings maybe $40-50.

New koni yellow/ GC setup about $800.

boxedfox

Tein has come a long way since the late 90's. The material quality has gone up, the damper internals have improved to the point where they're actually on par with the Koni entry level motorsport dampers, and they've started valving them so they're pretty decently comfortable on the street.

Having driven them on the street, raced on them, and spent a fair bit of time playing on a shock dyno I would rate even the cheap Flex Z kit above the old Koni / ground control combination.

boxedfox

Hmm. It would probably help if I specified which Teins are the good ones. They started selling dampers with more North American friendly valving / spring rates in the mid 2000's with the Basics and the Super Street. The 2014+ stuff, starting with the mono-sport, are very comfortable on the street and are made really well. The "Advance Needle" is a gimmick but the hydraulic bump stop and MSV shim valves are legitimately useful features for both road and track.

Avoid anything made before 2004 with the "Type XX" naming scheme. They're harsh on anything but billiard ball smooth roads, have weird front-loaded springing, and the valving only works in a really narrow range of conditions. They also don't have the same rust protection that the later dampers do so the threads on them are all sealed up. Oh yeah, and the old pillowball designs tend to fill up with dirt and develop tons of play.

Treat them well and they will last a long time. The casings are bombproof and the mounting flanges are hilariously overbuilt. It's hard to find that in any aftermarket damper nowadays.

MadcapAlex99

I looked into Tein and was interested in the Street Advanced series, but then I started hearing so much about about the Koni/Ground Control combination and so my mind started to change after doing a little research. I don't personally know anyone who has rode on Tein setup so there really isn't anyone in my area to ask how they like it. I do know someone who has the Koni/Ground Control setup and they said its amazing, but could Tein really be better than that?

boxedfox

If it's ride comfort you're after, the new cheaper Flex Z's are what you want. They're not rebuildable but they do a very good job of handling road imperfections and big bumps.

I'm actually amazed at how popular the Koni yellow still are. They're an ok street shock with a proven construction but they've always had less than stellar stock valving and the quality control on them has always been terrible. I think they were popular because they were cheap enough to revalve and were "good enough" in a sea of cheap, crappy options a few years ago. But the current generation of cheap street shocks from the likes of Tein, Bilstein, and Pedders as well as the small-time "fabless" manufacturers like Progress and Fortune Auto have made them basically obsolete.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

The koni yellow is great off the shelf with the right spring rate, completely rebuildable and race proven still to this day. The only other shock you mentioned that is on par with them would be Bilstein. Koni has also been around and used by real racers for a lot more than just a few years. If you want to spend 1k or more on entry level coilovers go ahead. There are better more, capable options out there.

boxedfox

I'm not sure how much attention you've been paying to the club racing world, but racers have been phasing out their Konis and Bilstein HDs for better options for the last 10 years. I don't love some of the options (e.g. field revalved BC Racings and ST Suspension by KW) but they come in under the 1k mark, have more suspension travel, and have more consistent behaviors for a longer period of time than the Yellows do. It shouldn't be a surprise. I mean the Koni yellow is a 40 year old design that hasn't changed at all.

They're a great shock from back in the day. But the companies that you seem to be so keen to denigrate are the very ones that are pushing Koni out of club racing. In fact, two of them (Pedders and Tein) are in the process of entering the market that Koni and Bilstein neglected by introducing stock-shaped OE replacement adjustable shocks.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

ehh...not really.

Tein's quality has always been on point, for as far back as I've used them (bought my first set of Teins in 2003ish).

The ride quality is questionable (really bad) on setups like the Flex. But you can set them up to make them work well.

Street Advances only advertise doing 1 thing well: street use. They're pretty dang well dialed in in terms of ride quality, they never rust, they take a beating, last a long time, and they're easy to set up.

Konis are better shocks and I've used them a bunch.

But I've been more happy overall with my Tein Street Advances as a street setup than any other coilover under $1200.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

I mean I obviously think they're much better quality than anything made by k sport, Megan, bc whatever other chinese coilover. It's just my personal opinion, I don't need coilovers for the street. I'd rather have something dual purpose even if based on older proven tech. I don't need motons or penskes either.

boxedfox

So here's a question - Why do you think the Konis are better shocks? They are the more expensive damper, yes. There are also a lot of used ones out there which is an attractive proposition for someone who wants to rebuild a set..

I am really curious because I've gone through and done a ton of shock dyno testing across popular brands, sat in a lot of cars with aftermarket dampers, and have some experience opening them up as well. Aside from brand affinity I don't see any reason why they would be a better shock. And they have lots of downsides (some of which are pretty hilariously bad, depending on the application).

MadcapAlex99

So would you have any recommendations for a good setup from your experience?

boxedfox

Oh sorry. Got too engrossed in the details that I forgot to answer your question.

I'm not sure that they sell them in Canada but if they do, the ST Suspension ST X coil overs. They come with soft springs and are amazingly comfortable on the street. The quality of the springs and casings have gone way up since KW bought them and they work well as a package. They don't work well on the track due to the soft springs and crazy high low speed damping. But if you want a comfortable ride, good looks, and rust resistance that's where I'd go.

​​​​​​​If not that then B_Serious' suggestion of entry level Teins is also good. I would look at one of the "Z" kits with the sealed dampers first because they come in cheaper and have identical damping to the street advance. Not quite as comfortable but like he said they are more durable and they seem to do a little better in a track environment.