PIC Apex Vs Selects?
 

Going to buy some PIC coil overs for my DB2 soon.
I'm a bit stuck on which one to buy though. Currently I've got Tein HAs on my car and I've never really played with the damping on them, just dialed them to where they felt nice and left it there.

So do I really need the adjustable damping offered by the selects or no?

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (The G2 Racer)
 

Couldn't hurt.

To me adjustability is always a good thing.
With non-adjustables they may be slightly too stiff or slightly too soft.... one click and you're super happy. Without that, you're not as happy...

Re: (Relic1)
 

Yea but is it really worth the extra $400?

I mean I love a hard riding car. That's how my Teins are set and I've never changed them.

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (The G2 Racer)
 

Adjusters are highly overrated.

From a performance standpoint, I don't buy dampers based on whether they are adjustable or not; I buy them based on the dyno charts. If the non-adjustable dampers have a more desireable dyno curve, I'd rather have those.

I think PIC has some dyno charts floating around here somewhere, if not on their web site.

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (Targa250R)
 

Yea, I've looked at the dyno charts. The Apex looks pretty damn good.

Last question, I'm going to ride DUMPED on these, will 12K front and 10K rear be too high of a spring rate?

the guys at PIC are some of the nicest people in the world. Email them, tell them your plans and they'll tell you what they recommend.
If they feel you'd be better off with some other companies setup, they'll tell you as much.

define dumped. some peoples dumped is a slight tuck, some are tucking the lip of a 15" rim...

12k/10k will be very stiff for the street, hopefully the roads in your area are not too bumpy or you don't travel too far. (damn I sound old) lol
12k/10k on the track will perform well, all though you may want more in the rear to get slightly more oversteer.

Re: (Relic1)
 

Car over steers too much already, planning on the ASR 32mm sway bar in the future.

Re: (Relic1)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To me adjustability is always a good thing.
With non-adjustables they may be slightly too stiff or slightly too soft.... one click and you're super happy. Without that, you're not as happy...</TD></TR></TABLE>

most of the time the shocks are too soft, though i think the PIC apex shocks are by far the best non adj shocks.

Re: (The G2 Racer)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The G2 Racer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Car over steers too much already, planning on the ASR 32mm sway bar in the future.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the rear is already too loose, why are you planning to put on the stiffest rear sway bar available? http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif

Re: (Targa250R)
 

I was told that would help it?

Re: (The G2 Racer)
 

If the car oversteers (back end comes out), then you need to have a stiffer front. Do this with higher spring rates and/or a bigger sway bar out front. If it understeers (the front end looses traction and you plow out of a turn), then make the rear stiffer with stiffer springs and/or a rear sway bar.

Since it already oversteers, don't get a rear swaybar, it'll exacerbate the problem. However, since you're getting a new coilover setup, wait to get that on and then decide if you need the rear sway bar or not.

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (The G2 Racer)
 

No I wouldn't say that you do. The large majority of people we talk to that ultimately decide on PIC's don't actually need the adjustable damping, but some do end up buying it simply due to the fact that they *want* it. People will want it for different reasons and of course there is always the possibility that they will end up utilizing it down the road, but for the most part, the average user can do without adjustable damping. More important is what spring rates you end up choosing.

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (PIC Performance)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No I wouldn't say that you do. The large majority of people we talk to that ultimately decide on PIC's don't actually need the adjustable damping, but some do end up buying it simply due to the fact that they *want* it. People will want it for different reasons and of course there is always the possibility that they will end up utilizing it down the road, but for the most part, the average user can do without adjustable damping. More important is what spring rates you end up choosing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks!
I sent you an e-mail in regards to spring rates.

Basically, I want to ride slammed on the street but raise it up for the track.
Was thinking the 12kF/10kR for my DA.

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (The G2 Racer)
 

When did you send the email? It must have been a while ago. But I'm sure I gave you the same answer in my email that I'd give you here...

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (The G2 Racer)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The G2 Racer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Basically, I want to ride slammed on the street but raise it up for the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You do realize that the alignment settings change significantly every time you change the right height, right?

Raising the car will toe-out the rear, which will make the rear end even more loose and cause instability under hard braking.

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (Targa250R)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adjusters are highly overrated.

From a performance standpoint, I don't buy dampers based on whether they are adjustable or not; I buy them based on the dyno charts. If the non-adjustable dampers have a more desireable dyno curve, I'd rather have those.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what makes a "good" dyno curve, then?

Re: PIC Apex Vs Selects? (Targa250R)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When did you send the email? It must have been a while ago. But I'm sure I gave you the same answer in my email that I'd give you here...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Last night, around 9-9:30EST. I did get a reply, thanks for the info.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You do realize that the alignment settings change significantly every time you change the right height, right?

Raising the car will toe-out the rear, which will make the rear end even more loose and cause instability under hard braking.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm....good to know. Guess I'll have to find the right height for all of it then.

Re: (The G2 Racer)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The G2 Racer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I mean I love a hard riding car. That's how my Teins are set and I've never changed them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You probably won't like it in a few more years. I don't see how anyone could stand 12K/10K springs on public streets. I had 8K springs in the rear when I had GC's for less than a year, and it was AWFUL on my 100-mile daily commute.

Re: (PatrickGSR94)
 

I have a bad back already so.....hahaha.

IF I grow to hate it I can always swap the springs out.

Re: (PatrickGSR94)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You probably won't like it in a few more years. I don't see how anyone could stand 12K/10K springs on public streets. I had 8K springs in the rear when I had GC's for less than a year, and it was AWFUL on my 100-mile daily commute.</TD></TR></TABLE>

anything more than 8k in the rear can't be daily driven, its a nice setup for track/weekend use but as for a DD, dont even think about it. my buddy is running 12k/10k in his DA and it really bounces around. Good thing he is two cars haha.

Re: (bmoua)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bmoua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anything more than 8k in the rear can't be daily driven, its a nice setup for track/weekend use but as for a DD, dont even think about it. my buddy is running 12k/10k in his DA and it really bounces around. Good thing he is two cars haha. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Pansy. I drove daily with 600 lbs-in rear rates on my 2100lb CRX for over 3 years back when I commuted at least 20 miles to work. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif Probably would still be driving it that way if the body hadn't rusted out. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emsad.gif

Re: (Targa250R)
 

I forget what the spring rates are on my Tein HAs but the damping is 4 from the stiffest in the front and 2 from the stiffest in the rear. I DD it about 60km to work every day and don't mind it one bit.