delslow!

hahahaha thanks man i thought it was pretty funny

cloumep3

how's the road in your area? I'm about to purchase same suspension setup for my ep3 and used to dry AZ weather, very concerned about Chicago snow season & street condition (p-holes, p-holes, & more p-holes) with sportline drop.

and thanks for great info. deeply appreciated.

kevinm1981

I removed the front camber kit on my 98 GS, what a difference so much nicer now. Handles better and doesn't bottom out anymore.

teggi

bets sticky ever!

99 TW EJ8

Thanks for the writeup! I just put some wheels on my car and am going to get it aligned this week. A camber kit would have probably required me to roll my fenders anyway.

92gsr_ajay714

Really, im glad I read this. I was just about to buy a kit by progress. My DA has bad tire wear. When I get new wheels/tires I will have to make note of this when I get my alignment done. Does will size also change caster/camber and toe?

TunerN00b

If the question is, "Does tire size change caster/camber and toe?", then the answer is "no, it does not".

markspan6243

ok so if i dont need a camber kit, then how do i fix the crazy camber on my car? the top of my wheels are cambered in like crazy. how do i fix it?

TunerN00b

You don't fix it. With any reasonable lowering, the camber isn't excessive enough to worry about, with the exception of the rear of a 96-00 Civic (as discussed in the original post of this thread).

If it really bothers you, crate a new thread. Include a picture so others can see the ride height, and include an alignment sheet so we know what values are being discussed. Providing spring rates and other suspension information would help as well.

markspan6243

alright ill get my car checked out this week. thanks alot guys, i need to get my car drivable asap. im going to be honest, i dont know what spring rates are but i have skunk2 lowering springs on ITR spec Koni yellows. the adjustment ring on the front struts are all the way at the bottom (if that helps any)

TunerN00b

Hum, that might end up leaving you with bottoming out issues.

The lower circlip position on Koni Sports (Yellows) are intended to lower with stock springs. Lowering springs should have enough rate to avoid bottoming out (too much) on their own, but adding additional lowing through the shock is going to leave the car too softly sprung for its ride height.

But, either way, that won't be radical enough lowering that camber will be an issue.

b20acteg

ok so im no pro, gruppie maybe. but ive been reading this thread and drinking and this thread has got to be the biggest mind **** ever. theres been sooo many alterations to theory and fact that i feel things got outa hand and away from the point. only because my photoshop isnt working i cant post an example or examples but if you can post that your tires have lasted over a year id be imressed WITH the RIGHT suspension geometry then please school me. but until then...dont lower your car soo much. i mean im a big fan of a slammed car also but if you wanna save your tires for the good easy 3-4 years you can get out of them ( obviously depending on how you drive this will vary) then dont lower your car soo much.

the theory i have on this whole topic CAN be reitterated through picture however like i said my PS isnt working and i also believe if you wanna go lower and be slammed something like stated before about the kind of locking adjustable camber kits would more than likely work in this instance.

im really not trying to be an a hole just trying to see if someone else sees or agrees with my theory.

-Jake

wheelmanbg

Here's my personal expiriences:
When I had 205/40/16s with all stock suspension (properly aligned) the inside showed more wear than the rest of the tire (no clue why)
After I lowered it and installed a camber kit (slide type on front; washers on the back) with 215/40/16s (properly aligned) the inside showed SLIGHTLY more wear than the rest of the tire.
I just put on 205/50/16s and had it aligned to 0 camber but after reading this, I might have it re-aligned to -1 camber so I can clear the fenders a little better.

edit: car is on lowering springs with about 2" drop

j.packsb

ok so im lowered on h&r springs with stock struts, and im getting a lot of wear on the inside edge of my tires on my 00 civic coupe. i kno i need a camber kit in the rear, but in the front all i really need is toe adjusted. but my question is, my struts arent the best and need to be replaced in the next 6 months, theyre almost blown but still ride half decent because of the springs. will the bounciness knock my alignment out and there for be a waste of money for me to get one??

SOLEpassion

question for you guys:

just installed some skunk2 pro-s full coilovers on my hatchback.
got that car to just about no finger gaps. now, im confused on the whole yea/no you dont need a camber kit.

i dont want the camber wear, but i read that the toe just needs adjustment & a wheel alignment.

the shops wont adjust or align without the camber kit. so should i just get a front kit?
OR any diy toe adjustments and such? any help welcomed

THANKS

kevinm1981

Why wont they align it without a camber kit? Call around more, there are shops that will align it without a camber kit. Go to a more performance oriented shop.

TunerN00b

Some shops won't align a lowered car, at all.

Others will align it, but will insist that you need additional parts so that they can put it back to within the manufacturers specified alignment range. This is not really a good idea, since the factory alignment was intended for the stock height, spring rates, etc., but these shops don't care and will insist that you need the OEM alignment. Some don't understand, others have liability to keep in mind.

Then, a few shops will actually do what the customer requests. These are the shops to find, and provide frequent business to once found. Unfortunately, they seem to be harder and harder to find these days.

FAMgarage

agreed. i drive a dumped eg coupe with a 2 inch drop. no front camber kit but i do have rears. i did an alighnment for the front but not for the rear. the front tires are stiil looking good, but the back was another story. my rear tires wore out faster than the front due to bad toe. later i got an alignment for the rear with lightly used tires. ever since the alignment was corrected in the rear, the wear problem was solved.

good thread

FAMgarage

that's bs man. the alignment shop did mine without front a camber kit. just go somewhere else.

cbaber

This thread is just stupid. You cannot just state that no honda needs a camber kit. Every application is different, and everyones budgets are too.

This is what a toe correction will prevent, and camber wear DOES NOT look like this. This is TOE wear:



This is what camber wear looks like, with correct toe alignment and without a camber kit:



Notice that the wear is more even across the face of the tire and not just confined to the inside edge. No matter how good your alignment is with excessive negative camber you will notice this camber wear eventually.

Now, of course, this is not the case everytime. If you are lowered less than 2 inches, do not even worry about camber. Just get an alignment to correct the toe. But if you plan to go 2 or below, its a wise choice to consider a small investment that will make your suspension more complete.

This thread ticks me off because its completely biased. You are trying to convince people that camber kits are a waste of money instead of teaching people what a camber kit actually does. The con's listed are really not relevant, and here are some more pro's to add to your weak list:

1. Allow you to adjust camber for the perfect setup
2. They look really good with other aftermarket suspension components
3. Its a new part. Why keep your old UCA's that have 150k miles on them???
4. Many good brands make quality UCA camber kits, including Skunk2, so you CAN get quality parts.
5. It will COMPLETELY PREVENT ALL TIRE WEAR associated with camber as long as you keep the camber in check. Why pay 400 for tires, then 25k miles later notice camber wear, then purchase more tires. You could have just spent an extra 140 for a camber kit and keep your tires longer. You win in the long run!


That is all!

dapek

Silly, uninformed list. I'm sure #2 really prevents wear Did you even read the entire sticky? Or just the title.

cbaber

The list was not "how camber kits prevent wear" it was pros of a camber kit. I figured I would argue in favor of camber kits since the thread is obviously biased. And to go one step more I will argue each of the points of the con list in the first thread...

1. Cost, plus the extra cost of alignments every time (could be $150 or more)
Entire UCA kits can be as little as $140 new.

2.Usually made of sub-par materials that rust, corrode, and seize up
Maybe the cheap ones. My BLOX UCA's have suffered through 2 winters of sand, water, dirt, and 30k miles. They still look new. You only risk poor quality materials when you purchase knock off/ebay parts. Go with the name brands like Skunk2 and this con will not be an issue.

3. Greatly reduces suspension travel clearance, both UCA replacements and just the bolt-type kits
If you are lowered enough that you need to worry about suspension travel clearance, you probably need a camber kit anyway! I am lowered a little over 2 inches and have had 0 issues.

4. Bolt-type kits are nearly impossible to keep straight and adjust correctly without throwing caster off
I would agree with this one. The bolt type kits are cheap, and they suck. I would only recommend the full control arm camber kits for the front. For the rear I dont even use a camber kit, it was not necessary after looking at the alignment printout.

5. UCA-replacement kits often use POS ball joints and have even more reduced clearance under the fender
Once again, stick with the quality brands and you should not have a problem. Besides, if your car has 150k miles, even lower quality ball joints are going to be a step up from your worn out ones.

6. Likely to slip out of adjustment, requiring another expensive alignment
This will not happen with a quality camber kit. The bolt type kits im not sure about, but if you are running the full UCA kit dont worry about slipping. Mine have been on for 2 years with no problems. Either way, I would rather pay the $70 to get it aligned than buy new tires.

pi Ka chuuu

nice points made here. although i love negative camber n lowered cars. seems like toe adjustments just might do the trick after all

IanBlake

so this is wrong?



yeah right

kevinm1981

^ Idiot.