Suspension & Brakes Theory, alignment, spring rates....

No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

 
Old 12-11-2017, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

edit: see next post...

Last edited by 94eg!; 12-11-2017 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by DCFIVER View Post
The ride height was changed by 10-15mm, You are not going to gain 20* negative camber from that. The front camber was intentionally changed from 10*to 30*

The vehicle was not simply lowered, it was more than that.


It is exactly the same. The specifications exactly are the same.

You dont seem to comprehend the fact that lowering a vehicle by 10-15mm isn't going to have a dramatic affect on the alignment angle.


Try aligning a few hundred vehicles and you may gain an appreciation for how it actually works.....

Went and looked... That spec you listed is in MINUTES! -10 minutes is -0.16 degrees. -30 minutes is -0.5 degrees. Yes you could easily go that far by lowering the front end a little bit. I already mentioned that lowering 2.75" will take you from -0.16 degrees (0 degrees 10 minutes) all the way up to -2.5 degrees (2 degrees 30 minutes). It's not rocket science. That's an AVERAGE gain of 0.78 degrees of camber per inch of lowering. A half inch would be 0.39 degrees. What does 20 minutes equal???? 0.33 degrees. How much is 10-15mm???? A half inch. It all matches up perfectly.

The rear of the EG/DC has very little camber gain. Therefore the spec doesn't need to be altered to stay within. Yes the spec is the same, but if you actually measured both vehicles, you could easily tell the difference.

ITR = Control arms were unchanged, bushings were unchanged. Chassis mount points are ALSO unchanged since all designs of strut tower bars and lower cross-members and lower cross-member bracing are directly interchangeable.

Last edited by 94eg!; 12-11-2017 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

Its hard to argue against the parts being the same. I also am not familiar enough with the chassis to say if the mounting points are the same or not.


So I guess Ill have to concede your point here, because I am uninformed enough to refute what you are typing. Perhaps you are correct.....
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

On the one hand, I've known for 20 years or more how critical toe adjustment is to tyre shoulder wear, and that a small amount of toe-in (maybe less than a turn of the tie-rod ends shared between the two sides) will produce even wear when before the inner shoulders, especially the driver's side, were wearing much faster than the rest of the tyres. So I entirely agree with the idea that in many cases you will not need a camber kit.

Yet on the other hand, I find it hard to take anybody seriously when they admit to lowering a street-driven car by three inches. Especially one which has good geometry and variations on low-unsprung-weight double wishbones at both ends of the car. It does my head in when I see one of these things bouncing along the road, and virtually stopping to negotiate mild speed humps or very ordinary driveway approaches. All you need to do to an EG or a non-Type-R DC2 is put the Type-R rear sway bar on it, and you have instantly turned it into a driveable, fun, rewarding car.

The only time that removing the suspension's ability to do its job might ever be a good idea is when you are racing on a perfectly flat and smooth surface. But everywhere else, it ruins the car....
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

No worries. I rarely take myself seriously.

The -2.75" was comparing the distance from the center of the wheel up to the fender arch on my CX hatchback vs a stock EX coupe I was parked next to (may or may not be accurate). The number itself had me completely blown away too as I didn't think it was nearly that low. I had adjusted the GC sleeves so I never scraped on speed bumps. Extended top hats kept the car off the bump-stops for the most part and Koni sports easily controlled the motion of lightweight CX on Ground Control springs. No bouncing whatsoever unless it was set to full soft. Way back when, I had my 8 months pregnant wife in the car without any problems. I do miss the punch-you-in-the-kidneys steering response of the 40 series RT615's though. The car is much more mild now. Kinda makes having a stock 89 CRX Si superfluous.

BTW: A stock 94 CX with only an ITR rear swaybar would be an absolute trash-can to drive. lol.

*edit: I'm guessing by your spelling of "Tyre" that you're not from the US. Perhaps you aren't farmiliar with our trim levels of Civics. The CX literally came with 4 wheels.....and that was about it.

Also, Las Vegas Nevada has very smooth roads with little to no actual weather. :D
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

And US-spec cars may not come with even a front swaybar?
Thanks to driving on the left in New Zealand, we are familiar with the Japanese models which are imported here in large numbers. Base-model JDM cars often have no bars either end, and handle accordingly.
Yes, we do have plenty of weather here. We are a geologically young and active piece of land without a huge population, so perfectly smooth or flat roads are rare.

I checked on the spelling of "Tyre". Unusually it's one of the words which wasn't mangled by you lot after you broke away from British rule. It's a comparatively recent change. Originally a tire was the hard-wearing steel band that was shrunk on to a wooden wagon or carriage wheel. In Britain and its Empire, the spelling in everyday use was changed with the introduction of pneumatic rubber "tyres".
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Old 12-12-2017, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

Yes, most base model Civics came with no sway-bars. I think only the Si had a front one. Anyways, the EH2 (CX & VX trims) even included soft springs and an off-road-like ride height. This is easly a 3" to 3.5" fender gap.

Stock VX (same suspension as CX but with alloy wheels & aero parts):
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

And 155-13 tyres?
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Old 12-12-2017, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

I think it's 165/70r13. DiscountTireDirect doesn't even have anything in that size anymore.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

That would explain a lot of the fender gap!
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: No, you DO NOT need camber kits!!!!!!!!

This is great to know. Thanks for this.
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