rmcdaniels

Chicago does suck in the winter, I got stuck at Great Lakes for half a year or so after living in Florida for ten years and it was miserable.

I'll buy that tool if nobody else needs it.

Heinz57

you said you were putting spherical bearings in? is this your track car? or are you not really happy with the OEM/mugen ones? just curious.

do you hatchback owners still get a good amount of noise in the back even after putting in the new bushings? it could be mostly from my hatch cover, i guess.

rmcdaniels

It's a street car that I track (autox, drag strip, and HPDE). I'm working out some bugs in the drivetrain, then I'll be moving all the go-fast parts to an extra hatch shell that I have and it will be my dedicated track car, leaving the coupe as my DD. The rubber bushings are nice, they don't bind up like the ES bushings do, but there is still some play in them under hard cornering. Ideally I'd like to get it set up with all spherical and Delrin bushings. I probably won't get it all done until this winter, and I may still see about getting a 2nd-gen CRX shell, my brother picked up one for his track car and it's amazing.

Honda Lioness

Thanks for sharing your experience, rmcdaniels and Heinz57. What you say gives me more confidence that I won't be throwing away some $170 on a tool that will just break.

A shop that subcontracts with Napa Auto Parts in my area will change the bushings for $18 each for me. But (1) it's not at all convenient to get the trailing arms to them; (2) from reports online, it seems like it's a risk that they'll orient the bushings correctly.

I enjoy doing this sort of thing myself. It's been really satisfying, albeit often laborious, changing out the lower control arm bushings. I learned a lot. That's worth something, too.

Heinz57, I wish I could figure out a way to buy the TA extractor tool you have, such that all felt confident in the deal. But casual long distance transactions with strangers are a tough proposition, IMO. Maybe you long-time posters here can work something out. Also, I see several others here interested in the tool, so since they preceded me, they should have first shot at buying a used one.

Heinz57

ya, no problem. i can understand your point of view. i've only bought a few things..maybe one thing from someone from HT, and luckily it ended up being a good experience.

If you're still somewhat interested in the tool, we can talk more. I would send the package out the very next day with tracking number. it's still up for grabs.

Honda Lioness

http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/102005_08.pdf has a different viewpoint on clocking ( = installing at the correct angle) the TA bushings.

Here's still another write-up on changing out the TA bushings, also using the Schley tool:
http://marketwareinc.zeroforum...=3442

I priced the labor cost (that is, I would provide the parts) of changing out the bushings at my local dealer's and at Pep Boys. Both want around 3 hours of labor, or over $240.

My local Napa auto parts store has a shop press subcontractor, with a one-day turnaround, but now they're saying they're not sure they can do the TA bushings.

So I'm leaning towards buying the tool at this point. "Just do it" sounds right.

Honda Lioness

Update on my 91 Civic LX Trailing Arm Bushing Replacement effort:

So far for one side it appears the inner sleeves of the (1) upper control arm outboard bushing and the (2) compensator arm's two bushings are frozen to their respective bolts. For (1), I just removed the two bolts to free the TA, like RMCDaniels did. For (2), I plan to cut out (with an air die grinder) the adjusting bolt (= the forward-most one RMCDaniels removes). I may end up cutting out and replacing the whole compensator arm and its two bushings.

My Civic was driven in the Northern U.S. for about ten years. I am now well experienced at cutting out lower control arm bolts and their bushings with an air die grinder. It's a little tight up by the compensator arm bolts, but I think I can do it.

I keep PB Blaster-ing the periphery of the TA bushings, in the hope that the Schley tool will be able to handle them.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda Lioness &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Pdf/102005_08.pdf has a different viewpoint on clocking ( = installing at the correct angle) the TA bushings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

These instructions only apply to a car that is at stock ride height. They are marking the same original position of the TA bushing & putting the new one in just like stock. That doesn't help us with lowered/altered suspension...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda Lioness &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's still another write-up on changing out the TA bushings, also using the Schley tool:
http://marketwareinc.zeroforum...=3442</TD></TR></TABLE>

When I asked this guy about "clocking" his trailing arm bushings, he had not heard of it, and insisted it wasn't necissary. That is a foolish/ignorant viewpoint in my opinion.

Honda Lioness

[QUOTE=94eg!]These instructions only apply to a car that is at stock ride height. They are marking the same original position of the TA bushing & putting the new one in just like stock. That doesn't help us with lowered/altered suspension...

You are right. Though maybe the Oct 05 Motor magazine article will help those with Hondas without lowered/altered suspension.


When I asked this guy about "clocking" his trailing arm bushings, he had not heard of it, and insisted it wasn't necissary.

His site does note that one should mark spots (which seem to attain the stock clock angle) so the new bushing is installed correctly. Still no good for lowered/altered suspension, but he does at least seem to be aware that the angle is important.

vtecmissle

How does lowered altered suspensions affect the factory bushing position. Does lowering the suspension twist the bushing out of allignment or do we want to mark where the tab is in relation to flex caused by the suspension to the bushing.

rmcdaniels

My take on the clocking is that you want the bushing to be unloaded during normal operation (i.e. - when the car is level), otherwise your suspension is preloaded and the bushing is under constant stress. That's why I clocked mine with the car on level ground on it's tires. Mine had ES bushings on it at the time, which rotate freely, but I suppose that a lowered car with OEM bushings would already be pre-loaded, so it may not sit at the same height as it does after the bushings are replaced, but I'm guessing the height change from the preload would be insignificant, so that method I used should get it close enough.


DISCLAIMER - I am not a professional automotive technician by any means, just a guy who works on his own cars and likes to post what worked out for him, so take this all for what is't worth.

known

iTrader: (1)

the tool is not needed but a luxury really. i did 2 sets in a short amount of time with a hacksaw, torch, mallet, hammer, vise. sounds like a lot of work but it really wasnt and this is how i did my whole es suspension kit. would have been nice to have a press but i didnt have one, so for anyone that doesnt want to fork out the money for the tool try it my way and just remove the whole ta and get to work. i torched the rubber in the old bushing until it softened enough to hacksaw through, i began cutting through the thin ring and once through i just did the other side. tap out the ring and install the new one.

Honda Lioness

Have you also changed the lower control arm bushings using this approach? Have you encountered seized control arm bolts?

Removing my 91 Civic's old lower control arm bushings was extremely laborious. My sense is that their age (15 years) and their having been driven through around ten years of Northern U.S. winters increased the rust and binding.

I found I could only press in the new ones with very exact fitting, doughnut shaped scraps and sockets. Usually, a grade 8 bolt (3/8-inch diameter or 7/16-inch diameter) passing through the middle of the new bushing and then the control arm was essential to get it pressed in. I discuss this at my web site.

I fear similar with the TA bushing. I think I really need a "pressure screw" type puller such as that shown in this tool to do the job at home without killing myself. I am a lightweight woman with not much upper body strength. Are you a really strong guy? Your answers to my questions will help my decision-making. It's not like I have $170 to throw away on a tool. Thanks.

rmcdaniels

I took the front LCA's to a machine shop and gave them $50 to deal with it, they said they were a bitch to get out of there. The front LCA's were also pretty easy to remove. When my rear LCA bushings cracked, I just bought the Omni LCA's because they were cheap. I got the tool for the trailing arms because it looked like a PITA to remove them and I didn't feel like removing the brakes, etc, plus I couldn't find a machine shop that had the right size fitting for the giant TA bushing sleeves anyway.

743power

so is anyone in this thread currently renting out the tool?

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so is anyone in this thread currently renting out the tool?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not right now, I may buy the used one off of the guy that's selling it, but I just spent all my money on a fresh RLZ Stage 1 GSR head, so I may have to wait until the end of the week to pick it up.

Honda Lioness

An Ebay seller is currently offering several of the TA bushing extractor tools for $139.95 each ("free" shipping). See

http://stores.ebay.com/Lancaster-Supply-Company


On my 91 Civic, one compensator arm bushing bolt (of four) and the two (of two) rear upper arm bushing bolts all had to be cut out. All are replaced now. I'm ready to change out the TA bushings and ordered the tool today.

B18EG6

Nice write up, thank you.

I recently got my hands on a full rear suspension from a teg, and it definately needs new TA bushings. The car I got it from was riding at stock height.

I am putting the suspension on my civic. How should I go about making sure the bushings are clocked correctly, seeing as how the setup is off my car right now?

It sure would be very easy to replace the bushings now, do I have to wait until I install the setup on my car?

Heinz57

Try seeing where your current bushings are sitting on your stock trailing arms. Then look at your teg trailing arms and mark where your civic sat on that. then when you install the new bushings, clock it to where you left the mark.

make sense?

B18EG6

yes, that does.

to add insult to injury, my civic I am putting this on has no interior or motor. Should I get some fat friends over to sit in the car while I measure?

in all honesty, should I add ~400 lbs to the interior near the firewall?

Honda Lioness

Update on replacing the TA bushings on my 1991 Civic, driven most of its life in the Northern U.S. (so lots of rust), and this being the first time the TA bushings have been replaced on it:

The tool arrived today (via an Ebay dealer). It worked perfectly. I had the job done in a few hours, going slowly. Bear in mind I freed all the bolts named below earlier. I also sprayed down the TA bushing/hole interface with PB Blaster several times over several days. Things that I think make the job go easier:

-- First unscrew the brake line bracket bolt (12 mm socket). Then work from forward-most to rear-most when freeing the bolts.
Compensating arm (toe) adjusting bolt, 14 mm socket
Two 17 mm socket bolts about the middle of the TA
One 14 mm socket bolt attaching TA to rear upper arm (= rear most bolt).
Go in reverse when re-assembling, using a jack to support the control arm and initially install the rear-most bolt. Snug things up, but wait until all bolts are in place before torquing to spec.

-- Removing part of the exhaust pipe (two bolts) makes the job easier on the passenger side.

-- Support the tool with wood blocks so its centerline is as perfectly aligned with the bushing centerline as possible. This will minimize the possibility of stripping the threads. The assembly flops around just a bit otherwise.

-- I needed only an 18 inch pipe extension on my wrench to advance the tool's approximately 3/4-inch pressure screw. Little effort is necessary, especially after the rust is initially broken and motion begins.

-- The bushing sort of bursts out with a loud bang when it comes completely free of the TA, as a result of the tension in the bolt suddenly being released. Take the tether that is attached to the tool (and is supposed to be attached to the bushing) seriously.

It's hard to estimate how many tons of force would be needed to free these bushings by hand or press. The arms on this special tool are /very/ hefty, which means the 3/4-inch screw takes very little load in comparison, or at least in comparison to another puller I use that has a 3/4-inch pressure screw but much flimsier arms.

dannydos

sub

Archidictus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FYI - when removing the TA from the Upper Arm, I'd remove the single bolt from the trailing arm, not the 2 in the chassis - the bolts going into the chassis are prone to being cross threaded with teh weight of the TA/brakes on them.

Nice write up </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with this 100%. I recently had to retap and rethread a kid's unibody at the camber link because the previous "mechanic" (which I think means an idiot friend of his) tightened them with a 750 ft/lbs impact gun, cross threaded them and stripped the holes and bolts to the point of uselessness.

This is a great writeup, by the way

rmcdaniels

I'd have to agree with that. I always do the two bolts, but I prop it up with a jack to align the holes and thread them by hand to make sure they are in there right. I also use anti-sieze on everything, so all my stuff goes-together/comes-apart pretty easily. They are easy to cross-thread though (screwed up one years ago when I first started working on Civics), so it's probably a good idea for most people to do the one bolt on the other end of the arm.

Dwight Schrute

is anyone still renting out a tool? i'd like to replace my RTA bushings , and I dont want to deal with the hassle of removing the entire arms and having the bushings pressed in by a shop.