cautiousk

Hi all,

I need your expert 'eye' in the 2001 Civic lower ball joint picture.

Try to make a long story short, my daughter got tapped by a lady pulling out of a parking spot. She just backed out and tapped the front bumper (see pic). She said it happened so fast, daughter put on the brake, lady backed up into her (she said it pushed her back about a foot) with her brake on. This collision happened in early Late Sept '12. I think.

Anyhow, the lady admitted fault, her insurance was going to take care of the bumper, but daughter complained about wierd noises and vibration with the right wheel area front. So I took it into my mechanic (Nov 7 '12) to diagnose and estimate, and he said, from the est..., there's "Right front wheel speed sensor fault" and "ABS/VSA Control unit failure.

"Recommend/Replace Rt./Ft. Wheel speed sensor $185 parts/labor"
"Recommend/Replace ABS Control Unit- est $250 parts / labor"
"When the Rt. Frt wheel was removed, we found damage to the axle and LOWER BALL JOINT. Est. to replace rt.axle$225 parts/labor"

** SO I asked my mechanic is this caused from the accident, he said possibly.

Now the Insurance Adjuster went to the shop to inspect the collision and she said they will take care of the bumper, but all else with the front wheel/susp is normal wear and tear, and they denied that part of the claim.

OK, so.... I found a receipt / invoice, from the same mechanic 9-25-2012, that stated: "*Check fr. suspension and advise on loose ball joint* ...Labor- Remove right steering knuckle and REPLACE WORN-OUT LOWER BALL JOINT" $156 --- NEW BALL JOINT $38.26.

This is strange to me, so today finally, the adjuster from the other ins. company sent me the photo's.

Does this look like a new ball joint? Could it have look that 'old and dirty' since only 2 month? It looks like it never has been replaced.

I do not want to badmouth anyone, since I'm not 100% sure what is really going on, but the pictures and facts are the only thing I have to base it on? Does it look like any work has been done to this area that I paid for 9/25? or is the adjuster wrong and that the problems are related to the front end damage?

Thanks in advance-

'hole' from bumper damage/pics from Insurance Adjuster:

Fliptard

When you put a new ball joint in, on the bottom there is a ring that goes around it to keep it from poping out like yours did, Most likely someone didn't put that ring on, or didn't make sure it seated in properly.

cautiousk

Thanks for the reply,

From looking at those pictures the insurance adjuster took, does that lower ball joint look 'new' as I had paid for on sept 25? It looks as if it never was changed?

Fliptard

It does look like it's been replaced, if not, the boot whoud prolly be torn, and and nut and cotter key would be rusty

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Imma gonna say "No". Looks old.

egsleepercivic

it looks like it is rubbing on the axle

beanz86

I say axle is fine unless its clicking awfully den needs to b replaced n ball join defenetlly old

beanz86

But I see that its still dat stock balljoint its never been replaced wat seems to b grinding on axle is da ball joints bleeder well wats left of it kus of da impact of da accident I assume

TKATS_EF

Yeah its hard to tell if the balljoint is new...but it just looks like its never been replaced, it could just be the resudue of the rubbing that makes it look like that. About your axle...its toast. The ABS ring is pretty much gone, if you use it you will throw and ABS code. Sure they might sell the tone ring seperately but at this point have them replace the complete axle that will come with the tone ring anyways. That sucks man...all for just one little ring clip...

TKATS_EF

Also a reputable shop needs to show you the parts that have been replaced...before being thrown away. I would argue that there is no sign of the clip being installed on the ball joint if thats the case. The least the shop could do is replace the ball joint and axle at no cost....now double check is that an actual invoice or a quote? the way they word it on there it sounds like a quote....good luck

cautiousk

Thank you guys for the reply, yesterday, insurance co. said it's final, they are not responsible for that damage.

The mechanic said and defended his position, even about the ring/clip?

I'm lost here now. Don't know if it's the mechanic faulty repair with the installation, if there was one, ..... Or was it caused by that front end parking lot impact???

Don't know what to do as all are defensive and I feel screwed!

98civdx

What? 2 posts in and you can't type for ****.

That was caused by something failing, whether it's the ball joint, the clip, or even if the knuckle is damaged or your daughter hit something pretty damn hard.

I don't believe the insurance company is responsible for the damage.

cautiousk

Thanks '98, I appreciate your comment. I also took that into consideration that my daughter 'cause' something 'more, additionally' and didn't tell me. But all I have to go on right now are facts and replies.

kyden

OEM ball joints don't use a clip and even only some of the aftermarket ones use a clip. so i wouldn't really jump to it being that.

this is no way related to the accident.

MAD_MIKE

Can't say for positive on OEM from the factory, but nearly any quality brand with that Honda type of BJ does indeed come with a clip.

Like any component that gets replaced on a car they can often be slightly over-sized or knurled to fit an area snugly. That circlip is used for added security incase the pressed joint fails. A sudden shock could pop the joint apart. But there doesn't appear to be any impact/witness marks on the front control arm nor on the BJ stud/nut assembly.
The front suspension on Hondas seems to be a bit less resilient to incurred damages from off road excursions and the like. I would wonder if from the push, the knuckle was tweaked enough to pop the BJ loose.

As for relating to the accident, no noise or issues and then after getting hit'(she said it pushed her back about a foot)' the bumper is screwed up and the BJ is trying to pull a note off the CV axle? Takes a bit of force to push a car with locked up brakes.


'OOOOO...'

I would have not mentioned the accident and just showed him the mess.
"Recommend/Replace Rt./Ft. Wheel speed sensor $185 parts/labor"
"Recommend/Replace ABS Control Unit- est $250 parts / labor"
"When the Rt. Frt wheel was removed, we found damage to the axle and LOWER BALL JOINT. Est. to replace rt.axle$225 parts/labor"

Of course when he hit you with that, you could hit him back with 'didn't you just replace that balljoint?' Sometimes mechanics forget what car they may have just fixed.

An axle costs ~70, so hell let him have the axle and BJ for 225 installed. Then tell him you will think about the ABS sensor and unit.
If the new axle and BJ doesn't clear the ABS code, more than likely the fix for the $435 ABS gorilla is a $30 wheel sensor from RockAuto.

You may want to look on the P side for the circlip if it is indeed installed on that BJ. And insist that he install one on the new 'third' BJ.

Hard to say what exactly caused the BJ to pop, I would have blamed for any damaged incurred on that corner after the incident, due to the accident.

If you only dealt with her insurance you may be SOL. If you filed a claim with your own insurance then they should be willing to get you back to where you were prior to the fender bender. I find it a bit odd they don't want to take any responsibility for such damage. Seems like such a petty amount of money for something so mission critical as a ball joint.

kyden

yes and no. if an aftermarket one was made well enough, there is no need for a c-clip. oem did not have one (you can't buy a ball joint from honda for that car, so kind of a moot point).

honda.driver.bence

I do suspension and alignments all day at a collision center. The original ball joints from the factory do not have grease fittings, that one does. Leads me to believe it was changed at some point. Another poster has a very good point about a snap ring that goes into a groove on the lower part to make sure it does not pop out like that. To me looks like faulty repair n garage is liable for all necessary repairs. Which include axle, ball joint, possible knuckle (could be out of round from flopping around once it popped out), speed sensor, (and abs unit if it is faulty) good luck

volcom40street2

Like stated above ... no snap ring... it holds it down from coming up and out of the LCA...

essex

Honda used to make all of their ball joints with clips now they don't , I'm pretty sure all the aftermarket ones such as moog still use clips

rice a roni

iTrader: (1)

and no the axle is fucked. the abs groves are shaved right off.