Dilbones

Hey all.

I drive a 93 Honda Civic DX Coupe.





As the title says, on hard corners, I'm experiencing a lifting wheel on my inner, front tire. It's either that, or I'm reducing grip to the extent that my lack of an LSD is showing thru and the inside, front wheel is spinning.

This happened AFTER I changed my alignment settings via string alignment, most notably.

I kind of botched the alignment job the first time around because I assumed equal track width front and rear on my Civic...however, after measuring the second time, I found out that the front track width is approximately 10 mm greater than the rear.





It made my anticipated zero toe all around turn into toe out all around...other than that, here is what I measured before performing the alignment the second time:

• F Camber: -3 deg. on one side -3.5 deg. on the other
• R Camber: -0.8 deg.
• Toe negative all around due to improper assumptions

Here are my parts:

• Integra GSR Rear Trailing Arms
• Integra Type-R Rear LCAs
• Integra Type-R Koni Yellows Revalved to Race Spec
• Eibach Race Springs 500 # F and 600 # R
• NO Sway Bars (Because DX)

Recently, I fixed my alignment and I'm at :

• Front camber: -3.0 deg.
• Rear Camber: -1.5 deg.
• Toe: 0.0 deg.

The car feels like it has much more grip now, but I also am noticing that on hard corners, the front, inner tire is either losing a lot of grip or lifting.

Should I add sway bars?

Is it tire pressure?

Dampening settings?

Spring?

I know that these cars are unlike a lot of FWD cars in that some people like to run stiffer up front than in the rear, as opposed to the opposite for more rotation.

Any help is appreciated!

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I like running stiffer rear springs, similarly to how you have it set up.

I think you're just finding the limitations with a lack of LSD. You likely increased mechanical grip to the point that one tire is unloaded enough to spin when trying to accelerate at corner exit.

It doesn't take much for that to happen.

You could try sway bars. But honestly, I was able to fire up my inside tire on my EM1 with the 26mm front bar, 22mm rear bar, and the stock B16. Sway bars limit roll...but also limit droop, BTW.

I find that a LSD helps tremendously with corner exit. Its probably one of the biggest bang-for-your buck mods.

Dilbones

Good input. I can't justify buying an LSD for my D-Series. I probably am over-complicating things.

Thank you.

tcrane

If you're actually lifting front tire in a corner (like an M3 on track typically will), then i'm not sure what difference an LSD will change for this issue, i tracked with an open diff on a GSR transmission in my EK for a while before going with a ITR LSD trans - i dont think this is whats causing the issue. BUT, i do recommend getting an LSD regardless, changes the feeling of the car completely.

Your issue here seems to be sway bars - you dont have any.. your spring rates are fine, maybe a bit too soft on the front rebound shock setting too? I would stiffen up the rebound setting on both front shocks for sure.



I run a 24mm rear sway and 26mm front sway, similar spring rates, and i lift rear tire, which is a bit more of what you want..

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Stiffening front rebound would cause more lifting mid corner or on exit. You want the shock to let the spring droop.

But it may help with lifting on entry...which may be the issue in the first place.

His springs may be too short (they are likely not in contact with the shock at full droop). A helper spring would....help.

A clutching LSD does not need both wheels on the ground to work.

tcrane

I'm sorry but i think that you're confusing rebound with compression adjustment???

Example how rebound setting adjustments work;
- Stiffen the Front Left shock rebound = Right Rear will be more planted on the ground

- Stiffen the front right shock rebound = Left Rear will be more planted on the ground.

- Stiffen the Right rear shock rebound = front left will be more planted on corner exit when on or maintaining throttle.

- Stiffen the Left rear shock rebound = front right will be more planted on corner exit when on or maintaining throttle.





Lifting on entry (or braking) causing the FRONT to dive and that's where you adjust the rebound in the REAR corners to counteract.



The issue here is sway bars, the car has none, in autox that might be OK but on the track its just relying too much on spring rates..

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I understand rebound.

It controls (damps) expansion of the spring.

If the spring cannot expand, it cannot create suspension droop.

He said his front tire was lifting. You first suggested increased FRONT rebound.



Your second post (correctly) implies that increasing REAR rebound on the opposing corner would help prevent front tire lift.

But again...shocks are fairly inactive midcorner (unless you hit a bump).

tcrane

OK last one on this, but, sorry, i stand by my posts.. i will admit one of mine sounded contradictory but it depends on the circumstances of when the front end is lifting.

To clear up what i'm saying..

If his front tire is lifting than there is too much travel being allowed (its likely not REALLY coming off the ground much if at all, if the front rebound is stiffened then the shock will not extend as much or as quickly, keeping the more weight over that particular corner, hence also reducing squat in the opposite side rear (during the corner under steady or increasing throttle).

Increasing the rear rebound will help more with front end dive when braking and turning in, increasing the front rebound will keep the the front end more planted under steady or increasing throttle in the turn.

Again, he just needs sway bars to help fix this, looking at the pictures its got WAY too much body roll. With that much travel the weight isnt balanced, the effective alignment is not accurate, and its putting too much stress on the shocks..