02 accord

I got a 20 mm TL-S rear sway bar a while back, and at first, the car oversteered a bit during hard cornering. Now, after putting on some miles, the bar got softer, and the car doesn't want to oversteer anymore. Since I still have the stock 16 mm sway bar, I got an idea to put that on the car along with the 20 mm. I have a few ideas, and theoretically, it should bolt right up. I would have to make some adapters to connect both sway bars and for the endlinks to mount to, but that shouldn't be too hard.

My main concern is if the subframe will be strong enough for the stiffness of both bars combined. Any comments/opinions on this setup?


Modified by 02 accord at 12:28 AM 6/19/2007

5spdcoupe

Sorry i cant answer your specific questions, but i just wanted to point out it won't be as stiff as a 20mm+16mm= 36mm bar. I'm not sure exactly how much the subframe can handle but if you were thinking its going to be the equivalent of a 36mm bar it wont be, how much exactly tho im not sure.

Loco-B

no. Not smart, and certainly not safe. Just drop a few bones on a sway bar thats worth dropping your money on.

02 accord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 5spdcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it won't be as stiff as a 20mm+16mm= 36mm bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I realize that. The 20 mm was too soft for me, so adding anything on top of that would be an improvement. That's what I was aiming for, and not for the stiffness of a 36mm bar.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LocOBanAnA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no. Not smart, and certainly not safe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How is that not smart and unsafe? As long as it's done properly, it's as safe as a 23+ mm bar. Not safe as in the car will oversteer or the whole thing will fall apart? The car will oversteer as much as with a single bar. Single or dual bar makes no difference; stiffness makes a difference.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just drop a few bones on a sway bar thats worth dropping your money on. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Drop a few bones? You mean drop a few hundred bones? I already have a 20mm and a stock 16mm, so why not use them both.

Back to the topic. I have bolted everything up without a problem. I'm not getting as much oversteer as I was expecting, but that's ok. At 70+ mph, the car feels very responsive. One little movement of the steering wheel makes the car rotate instantly. The back end doesn't feel loose though. This was just an experiment. All this was done in a few hours, so don't laugh at my ghetto spacers (nuts). Then endlink adapters have play in them, so I'll have to redo those. Overall, it was successful.

Eddiebx

haha, safe or not, that looks like a pretty goood job of working with what you got.

i bet if you figure out a bit more of a secure method to hold the two d-bracket bushings together. something that will flex less might be better, seems like the way you have it might have too much flex becuase of that huge stack of bolts.

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry, but this is going to come out overly rude and abrasive, but it has to be said.

You are threatening your cars structural integrity with that "duct-tape will fix-it" setup you have there. I'm going to assume that you haven't taken many physics classes, because even the simplest of physics will tell you that you only have to put a little amount of stress at a long distance away from a fulcrum, to move an object. See that stacked set of nuts you used to mount your second anti-sway? The moment you hit a decent turn, where the anti-sway will be put into decent motion, you will bend the chassis-side mount for your anti-sways, plain and simple. I don't think I have seen such a simple-minded error in car modification. You must've been under the influence to not see that huge mistake. My suggestion: take the second anti-sway off, before you do some serious damage to your car, or worse, yourself.

Loco-B

this is the worst idea i've ever seen put down on paper.

is there anything else done to the car's suspension? Looks like your on stock suspension.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All this was done in a few hours, so don't laugh at my ghetto spacers (nuts). Then endlink adapters have play in them, so I'll have to redo those. Overall, it was successful.</TD></TR></TABLE>

By the looks of the half-a$$ed job, i give it two months before your replacing sway bar links.

nViDia-ForCeZ

Dude, Nice work. maybe not the greatest but you did said it just a experiment. But in all it looking good

JDM_CD7

iTrader: (1)

Looks good.
However I think the bolts holding the sway bar to the subframe are going to break as soon as you take a hard turn.

02 accord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toyomatt84 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that "duct-tape will fix-it" setup you have there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not a duct tape fix. I had an idea and I wanted to try it out.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm going to assume that you haven't taken many physics classes</TD></TR></TABLE>

And I'm going to assume that you haven't been very good in physics.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The moment you hit a decent turn, where the anti-sway will be put into decent motion, you will bend the chassis-side mount for your anti-sways</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe there is a reason why the 20mm is sitting on the subframe and not that 16mm. The moment I hit a decent turn, the 20 mm bar will take most of the force. And since both sway bars are bolted together at the ends, the 16mm bar will not move enough to bend anything. If it does move, it will move the 20mm bar with it (which will not happen).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LocOBanAnA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is the worst idea i've ever seen put down on paper.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never put anything on paper. Where do you see paper? I don't see any.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there anything else done to the car's suspension?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does that have to do with anything?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">By the looks of the half-a$$ed job, i give it two months before your replacing sway bar links.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would I be replacing the endlinks? Because I have 2 sway bars? What if I got one thicker sway bar and used the stock endlinks. Would I be replacing them in 2 months too? If you call that half-assed, let's see you do better in 3 hours (that included design and fabrication).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_CD7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the bolts holding the sway bar to the subframe are going to break as soon as you take a hard turn. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I took plenty of hard turns already, and it's still holding up. I'll keep an eye on everything though.

361 accord

hella mad props!

but i dont think it will last, maybe on a CRX, but not on a heavy *** accord

btw how much of a diff did the acura bar make, and was it just a TL one or a TL type S one,

dumb car understeers like a bitch, well in a steady 15, maybe 20-something MPH slalom w/o touching the brakes so mehhh

02 accord

The 04 Acura TL-S bar made a huge difference. When I first put it on, the back end started getting loose on tight turns. After a bunch of miles, the bar got softer (no more oversteer), but still, it was a big improvement from stock.

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not a duct tape fix. I had an idea and I wanted to try it out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Call it what you like, it's a cheap, unsafe solution to the problem at hand.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And I'm going to assume that you haven't been very good in physics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Assume what you like, but 3 years of Advanced Physics and Calculus in college speaks for itself.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe there is a reason why the 20mm is sitting on the subframe and not that 16mm. The moment I hit a decent turn, the 20 mm bar will take most of the force. And since both sway bars are bolted together at the ends, the 16mm bar will not move enough to bend anything. If it does move, it will move the 20mm bar with it (which will not happen).</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, if the endlinks or the modified mounts you made to attach both swaybars to the same endlink, doesn't bend, you'll see either bends, or possible stress cracks in the metal that is your chassis-side mount for the sway bar bushings. Assuming you used Grade 8 hardware, all the stress will be on the flat metal surface, and on the mounting nut (which is just tack-welded in place).

streetxdreamer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toyomatt84 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, if the endlinks or the modified mounts you made to attach both swaybars to the same endlink, doesn't bend, you'll see either bends, or possible stress cracks in the metal that is your chassis-side mount for the sway bar bushings. Assuming you used Grade 8 hardware, all the stress will be on the flat metal surface, and on the mounting nut (which is just tack-welded in place).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Loco-B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the back end started getting loose on tight turns.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats because you have nothing else done to the car.....your riding on stock a$$ suspension thats meant for grandma and grandpa to go from home to church, not for johnny tran to drift around downtown tokyo side streets.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never put anything on paper. Where do you see paper? I don't see any.</TD></TR></TABLE>

its a conundrum a$$hat

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">let's see you do better in 3 hours (that included design and fabrication)</TD></TR></TABLE>

design and fabrication is not walking into your local home depot and picking up a bunch of nuts and bolts slapping them tegether like an erector set.

02 accord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LocOBanAnA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats because you have nothing else done to the car</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did I complain about that? Nope.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">design and fabrication is not walking into your local home depot and picking up a bunch of nuts and bolts slapping them tegether like an erector set.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

And figuring out how to connect the 2 sway bars to the endlink to make it all work, and making the necessary pieces is not design and fabrication...

And what have you designed/fabricated? Let's see....nothing. You changed your headlights and put on window visors (just to name a few). That makes you so much better than me. Anybody can follow instructions.

361 accord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 04 Acura TL-S bar made a huge difference. When I first put it on, the back end started getting loose on tight turns. After a bunch of miles, the bar got softer (no more oversteer), but still, it was a big improvement from stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>


bitchin so you went from understeer to oversteer, biiitchin!!!! i can quit using the ebrake to hook really tight u-turns when i dont wanna turn and back up anbd turn and stufff

ricer uturns ftw

Loco-B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You changed your headlights and put on window visors (just to name a few)</TD></TR></TABLE>

built a 400whp talon tsi, custom fabed and welded intercooler piping, ported and polished the head on a flowjet, worked as a cnc machinist for 2 years........

yeah i dont know how to fabricate anything.


Modified by LocOBanAnA at 5:40 PM 6/21/2007

Bruce Banner

That's DUMB

vtecvoodoo

wow

micmic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a 20 mm TL-S rear sway bar a while back, and at first, the car oversteered a bit during hard cornering. Now, after putting on some miles, the bar got softer, and the car doesn't want to oversteer anymore. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Question #1: Have you considered that there could be something else that caused it to get "softer"?

Bars should not get less-stiff after puting "some miles" on the car. Perhaps when you installed the bar, you did it in way that put pre-load on the bar? And, the bar could have resituated over time. Or, there could be shock issues, bushing issues, etc.


Question #2: Have you considered that by stiffening the swaybar, you are making the suspension less "independent"?

*Sarcasm -ON* Why stop with the two sway bars? Why not just weld a solid beam to both sides? Or you could buy a Sentra. For a free upgrade, you could just pump your rear tires to 100PSI. I bet they would really rotate then.

*Sarcasm -OFF* Serisously shocks and springs would acheive this task much better and in a more balance maner than what you are trying to do. This may be a cheap and creative solution, but if the rear subframe separates, it will cost a lot more than the springs and shocks in the first place.


Question #3: Where are you driving that the car needs to rotate?

I hope this is not on public streets. That would be a really knuckle-headed thing to do and put all those around you at risk for your lack of judgement. If this in a on a track, why do you want to keep the stock springs and shocks?

radeonboy

subscribed! This is gonna be one fun thread

Civicman86

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 02 accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did I complain about that? Nope.

And figuring out how to connect the 2 sway bars to the endlink to make it all work, and making the necessary pieces is not design and fabrication...

And what have you designed/fabricated? Let's see....nothing. You changed your headlights and put on window visors (just to name a few). That makes you so much better than me. Anybody can follow instructions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude you come on here asking for opinions. Then people give you their opinions and you get all defensive. I personally don't think your setup is that safe either.

What material did you use on those "fabricated - aka cut to length" plates? Do you know how much force is on these components when your really in a turn?

I'm a senior in Mechanical Engineering at the University of Louisville. So I have studied my share of physics, materials, mechanics of materials, statics, dynamics, etc.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by micmic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Question #3: Where are you driving that the car needs to rotate?

I hope this is not on public streets. That would be a really knuckle-headed thing to do and put all those around you at risk for your lack of judgement. If this in a on a track, why do you want to keep the stock springs and shocks?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would also like to know the answer to this. Most of us in this forum have cars that are raced and no one else here felt the need to use two sway bars.

jpciii

Have you taken it to an autocross or a track to really test it out? Have you been able to make the rear end come around on you?

l2Y4N

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecvoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think this sums up my thoughts as well.