hcaulfield57

Few more questions: I'm trying to decide on spring rates and how much I can or can't lower the car. I was thinking either 300 lb/in front and rear or 350 lb/in front and rear. I was originally thinking 250 lb/in but that seems quite low to what other people are running on the street. I'm planning on the typical Koni/GC that everyone seems to have. They have a good deal with the extended top-hats as well so I think I'd run those as well to get some more travel. I was thinking of dropping the car maybe 1-1.5", will I have any problems with bump-steer or other nasty handling problems? Looks are secondary for me, so I really just want a ride-height that will handle the best.

I'm also trying to decide on wheels. I'm going to keep my stock 13" steelies for Winter but I was thinking about picking up a set of 14"x6" wheels for Summer. You can actually find performance tires for 14" wheels so I think this makes sense. I know most people go with 15", but I kind of prefer the looks of a smaller wheel. I was thinking 185/60-14 tires for a setup like this. I know that's still a skinny tire, but I don't want to "over-tire" the car and take away some of the nimble / adjustable feeling I like.

Thoughts?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I doubt you'll want more than 250LB of rear spring.

But...springs are cheap. Try out different rates to see how you like.

Its hard to explain suspension feel in person, let alone over an internet post.

At most, you'll get, "Been using 450LB for years". Which means....?????

Off the shelf rates and a very modest drop are what I've experienced as being comfortable. My qualifications for this observations are that I am an adult. With a job.

hcaulfield57

Thanks for the response. My only purpose for this car is to have a fun daily driver that handles well and can be fun to drive in the canyons after work. It's not a racecar or anything.

I guess what I'm wondering is would it be overkill to get the Koni/GC with relatively low rates of 250F/250R? Really I'd like to tune out understeer and aim for a neutral setup. This is the only reason I've been leaning towards a "square" setup. My understanding is that any regular lowering springs will give me an understeer biased setup, which I'd really not prefer. I'm not talking "at the limit" handling, but rather mild slip angles which I can notice. I was planning for 22mm front and rear swaybars as well. I really want to keep this car simple and not turn it into some nasty stiff car that's no fun to drive to work anymore. I have no objection to a different spring setup, it's just there's a myriad of choices, and the Koni/GC seems to be one of the most liked.

As far as wheels / tires, I suppose just make sure the offset stays close to stock and obviously avoid rubbing by going too wide?

EDIT: Okay I re-read your previous responses, sorry you covered most of this already. I'm probably overthinking this. I think I could probably just do good to mimic the DC2 setup. I've just been trying to be careful since I've had a bunch of suspension problems with my RX-7 (although it has a significantly more primitive suspension system). I'd really like a setup I can just install and forget. But I'm willing some compromise because I don't think I'll be entirely happy with stock (I'm not happy with the bouncing and tipping over feeling as it stands now). As far as lowering, it'd just be nice to get rid of the reverse rake the car has now. The rear sits maybe 1/2" lower than the front which looks like it's on stilts.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

My recommendation is to buy off the shelf rates. I think that puts you at 350/250. Use the stiffer front rates to gain some response from the car without giving up much comfort.

Remember, for a street car, FEEL is more important. You won't (shouldn't) push the car in the same way as on a track....so you won't experience the same understeer you would on track.

For street maneuvering, OTS rates will give you plenty of liveliness. Plus, the setup maintains the simplicity which you love about this car.

Again...if you want to move on after using OTS, springs are between $50-100/pair.


For wheels...I recommend 15's for the sake of tyre sizing. If you like the small wheel look, buy a wheel with stubby spokes and a small dish. Those types of wheels look smaller.

A 15" RPF1 looks small if you like that look. And you have the HUGE array of advantageous tyre sizing and brand availability that the 205/50/15 size affords you. The smaller sidewalls and better compounds also mean better response.

15x7 with a 35 to 40 offset is what I'd do for a street car. Or 15x7.5 to 15x8 with +35ish if you're fine with some fender work.

You can also stagger 205/50 and 195/50 or 225/45 and 205/50 to get the car to behave differently in the future.

The nice thing about Koni/GC and 15" wheels is the ability to have a good setup out of the box...but also have the options to easily upgrade and change as you want.

hcaulfield57

Thanks for the thoughts on spring rates. I'll give it some thought, I still have a bunch of stuff to do before I'm ready to buy, so we'll see. I guess I just don't like having to crank on a ton of lock when going through a corner. I suppose probably every car is like this, and it's really not excessive on my Civic, it would just be nice to have it a little more neutral. I do understand what you're saying about "feel" for a street setup though, because everything happens at slower speeds and below the limit.

I'm also leaning towards 15" now, because there are tire options out the wazoo and it's slim pickings in 14". I think RPF1's look great on EG hatches so I've been considering that due to being a very light wheel. They're a little pricey, but supposed to be a nice wheel. I've seen some good things about the Kosei K1, but I question it's durability on the street. Through google, some people seem to have cracked spokes on BMW 5-series, but then again those are super heavy cars, so maybe it's alright on a lighter car. I just wouldn't want to have a wheel catastrophically fail on me while cornering.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I doubt you'll crack a K1 on the street. For any reason.

Track wheels are wear items. They all crack eventually.

jdblock

What tires are you going to run?

hcaulfield57

I'm leaning towards 195/50-15. I don't know what brand, there are a lot of options. I'm leaning towards the smaller size because I want to keep some of the nimble adjustability that I have on the stock 175/70-13 tires. Honestly I don't find the grip that bad with the all-seasons I have now. I just don't want to run a stiff (or stiffer) suspension and have weak all-seasons. I currently have a very stiff suspension on my RX-7, but squishy all-seasons, and I think the chassis is under-tyred if that makes sense. I'd honestly probably stick with the stock steelies if I didn't think it'd have negative handling characteristics. I could be totally mistaken on this though.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

205/50/15 keeps closer to the stock rolling diameter. If using a 7 to 8" wheel, this size makes for very good response, as the sidewalls will take shape better.

I assume the availability of options in a 205 is also better.

hcaulfield57

I think I'll decide after I put the shocks/springs on what I want to do wheel/tire wise.

Unfortunately I'm still a bit out before I'll get the GC/Konis, since I want to fix my brake issue, fix the rear main seal and make sure I'm happy with my steering adjustment before replacing these. It will be nice, my car feels like an old Citroen 2CV going around corners, there's that much body roll. No way these cars were that bad stock.

hcaulfield57

I ended up ordering my GC/Koni setup a few days ago. I called Ground Control and they recommended 380f/300r for my purposes, so that's what I went with. I'm excited to get them on the car and look forward to posting how it drives. Should be a huge improvement over the worn out stock stuff. I'm happy about how the car handles in stock form (minus the extreme body-roll and lurch), so should be a lot of fun I think.

hcaulfield57

Got my Koni/GC in yesterday and went for a drive.

I started with the rear shocks on max stiff and the front shocks on 75% stiff. I had a backache after about 20 minutes, the car was rattling all over the place. Turn-in was fantastic, kind of spooky how the back end just pulls the car in. Very different feeling than a RWD car. I since turned the shocks down, because while fun, it pretty much turned the car into a toy rather than something I could drive around regularly. The nice thing about the Koni's is how easy they are to adjust though. The Koni yellows feel like a much better shock in terms of quality and design than my Tokico Illuminas. Understeer feels quite reduced and the rear tires seem to actually be playing a part in cornering now! The front end still feels a bit sloppy and I'll definitely be installing a front swaybar to try and tame some of the roll and vague initial turn in.