Another bar'd question jdm b16a
01-19-2011, 04:32 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Another bar'd question jdm b16a
so im picking up a jdm b16a from a 90 ef and im wondering what am i gonna be able to do to get it bar'd? like what kind of head could i use and do it have to convert it to obd1, what intake manifold can i use, exhaust mani, ecu, and tranny? i searched but found only del sol stuff and 2007 threads so dont say search.
01-19-2011, 04:40 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
That's pretty much it, make your motor a copy of a del sol vtec model. And you will be good. But I don't think ilu cam bar a jdm motor, could be wrong but call your local ref
01-19-2011, 05:34 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
no, it has to be a direct copy. because a B16 didnt come with a GSR head. if you use an aftermarket GSR intake manifold, the CARB #'s will match up to a GSR and you will most likely fail right off the bat.
01-19-2011, 08:38 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
those will be up to the ref. you can stop by and ask if they approve them or not. if they do, your good to go. if they dont then you will need to do some rewiring to your harness.
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01-20-2011, 02:05 AM
#9
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Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
now another question is ac i have crx ac set up, could i fab it to fit into the b16 without spending 180? and also is there a downfall to the b16 to getting a b18c?
Last edited by AlfieRoach; 01-20-2011 at 03:11 AM.
01-21-2011, 12:20 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
also since im doing the clone del sol vtec for reff im gonna need a usdm p30 ecu, but i cant seem to find an affordable one. so ill buy a jdm one and give a call out to any b16a riders in sd that might be able to help with letting me borrow the usdm ecu for the reff?
01-22-2011, 10:50 AM
#16
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Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
but its a jdm ecu. cali is so stricted on that rule and yes u can ref a jdm motor but has to be a usdm clone of that engine
Last edited by AlfieRoach; 01-22-2011 at 11:09 AM.
01-22-2011, 03:09 PM
#18
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Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
so im picking up a jdm b16a from a 90 ef and im wondering what am i gonna be able to do to get it bar'd? like what kind of head could i use and do it have to convert it to obd1, what intake manifold can i use, exhaust mani, ecu, and tranny? i searched but found only del sol stuff and 2007 threads so dont say search.
I talked to a ref in so cal in november 2010. I was doing an ls integra with a GSR swap. But this is what he told me. Lets say a civic, i'm assuming thats what you are doing with the b16. As long as a civic came with a B16 in it in the U.S. which it did in the 99-00 civic si, then the JDM B16a is considered a OEM replacement motor for the civic. And you would not need to BAR. You would only need to BAR for instance, a USDM GSR motor in a civic, because the civic did not come with that motor in the U.S.. But for smog, you would need the USDM OBD1 P30 B16 intake manifold with purge solonoid, and the USDM B16A3 engine harness, and the USDM P30 ECU, and CARB legal CAI and Exhaust Manifold. I was in the process of doing this in my 94 dc integra, but the harness and ecu, are rare and hard to find clean. As far as i know, nothing has changed with the smog ref regarding all of this. It would be actually cheaper and easier (i think, my opinion) to get a usdm GSR, and ecu, and harness and get that bar'd into your civic. These parts are alot easier to find.
01-22-2011, 03:23 PM
#19
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Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
thats what i was thinking of doing im trying to see if anyone would trade my shortblock for a usdm gsr shortblock but apparently from what im told it cost more for a gsr right?
01-22-2011, 05:46 PM
#20
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Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
Got this from a old thread.
AMERICAN USDM MOTOR ARE STILL ALLOWED TO BE REF'D AND BAR'D
NOT JDM MOTOR UNLESS IT IS A EQUIV TO THE ORIGINAL MOTOR.
I.E.
INTEGRA GSR WITH B18C1 CAN INSTALL A JDM B18C IN TO IT AS LONG AS IT HAS THE PROPER EMISSION EQUIPMENT.
CIVIC WITH D15B7 CAN INSTALL A JDM D15B
DEL SOL WITH B16A3 CAN INSTALL A B16A
AND SO ON
I JUST SPOKE TO A REF HERE IN SAN DIEGO. HE SAID THIS NEW SYSTEM IS NOT ACTUALLY A NEW LAW BUT IT IS AN ADDITION TO A PREVIOUS RULE/LAW THAT WAS ALREADY STATED. THIS NEW SYSTEM WAS IMPLEMENTED BY THE A.R.B. OF CALIFORNIA (IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT ANYONE ABOUT THIS NEW LAW THEY ARE THE PEOPLE TO ASK BECAUSE THEY INSTATED IT)
IT ONLY CAME OUT AS A MEMO AND THATS WHY A LOT OF REF STATION MAY NOT KNOW ANYTHING OR NOT THAT MUCH ABOUT IT YET.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION AND DON'T CALL (858) 586-1239.
THIS IS ONE OF THE REFEREE STATION HERE IN SAN DIEGO. THE SMOG TECH I SPOKE WITH WAS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE NEW SYSTEM. I ALSO ASKED HIM IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BLOW OVER...HE TOLD ME DON'T HOLD MY BREATH. ONCE THE A.B.R. SAYS SOMETHING ITS IN STONE. THE ORIGINAL RULE ABOUT BARing MOTORS IN YOUR CAR WAS NOT ORIGINAL IMPLEMENTED FOR THOSE OF US WITH LIGHTER VEH. TO INSTALL LARGER MOTORS. DUE TO ALL THE B.S. THAT DUMB ASSES CREATE IN CALIFORNIA DUE TO STREET RACING THAT PROBABLY THE REASON WHY THE NEW ADDITION TO THE RULE/LAW WAS ADDED.
THEY ARE NOT SAYING JDM MOTORS ARE NO LONGER TOTALLY ALLOWED, THEY ARE JUST NOT ALLOWED IN VEH. THAT WERE NOT ALREADY EQUIPED WITH IS USDM SISTER MOTOR.
A PETITION WILL NOT DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE STATEMENT.
IN THE END YOU CAN STILL DO WHATEVER MOTOR SWAP YOU WANT IN YOUR VEH. AS LONG AS YOU USE THE OLD LAWS ALREADY STATED AND THE NEW AS IT CAN ONLY BE USDM MOTOR IF THE VEH. WAS NOT ALREADY EQUIPED WITH THAT MOTOR.
EX.
1990 CIVIC WITH JDM B16A NO NO NO!!!
1990 CIVIC WITH USDM B16A3 OR B16A2 OR B18C5 OR B18C1 BLAH YES YES YES!!!
NOT JDM MOTOR UNLESS IT IS A EQUIV TO THE ORIGINAL MOTOR.
I.E.
INTEGRA GSR WITH B18C1 CAN INSTALL A JDM B18C IN TO IT AS LONG AS IT HAS THE PROPER EMISSION EQUIPMENT.
CIVIC WITH D15B7 CAN INSTALL A JDM D15B
DEL SOL WITH B16A3 CAN INSTALL A B16A
AND SO ON
I JUST SPOKE TO A REF HERE IN SAN DIEGO. HE SAID THIS NEW SYSTEM IS NOT ACTUALLY A NEW LAW BUT IT IS AN ADDITION TO A PREVIOUS RULE/LAW THAT WAS ALREADY STATED. THIS NEW SYSTEM WAS IMPLEMENTED BY THE A.R.B. OF CALIFORNIA (IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT ANYONE ABOUT THIS NEW LAW THEY ARE THE PEOPLE TO ASK BECAUSE THEY INSTATED IT)
IT ONLY CAME OUT AS A MEMO AND THATS WHY A LOT OF REF STATION MAY NOT KNOW ANYTHING OR NOT THAT MUCH ABOUT IT YET.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION AND DON'T CALL (858) 586-1239.
THIS IS ONE OF THE REFEREE STATION HERE IN SAN DIEGO. THE SMOG TECH I SPOKE WITH WAS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE NEW SYSTEM. I ALSO ASKED HIM IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BLOW OVER...HE TOLD ME DON'T HOLD MY BREATH. ONCE THE A.B.R. SAYS SOMETHING ITS IN STONE. THE ORIGINAL RULE ABOUT BARing MOTORS IN YOUR CAR WAS NOT ORIGINAL IMPLEMENTED FOR THOSE OF US WITH LIGHTER VEH. TO INSTALL LARGER MOTORS. DUE TO ALL THE B.S. THAT DUMB ASSES CREATE IN CALIFORNIA DUE TO STREET RACING THAT PROBABLY THE REASON WHY THE NEW ADDITION TO THE RULE/LAW WAS ADDED.
THEY ARE NOT SAYING JDM MOTORS ARE NO LONGER TOTALLY ALLOWED, THEY ARE JUST NOT ALLOWED IN VEH. THAT WERE NOT ALREADY EQUIPED WITH IS USDM SISTER MOTOR.
A PETITION WILL NOT DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE STATEMENT.
IN THE END YOU CAN STILL DO WHATEVER MOTOR SWAP YOU WANT IN YOUR VEH. AS LONG AS YOU USE THE OLD LAWS ALREADY STATED AND THE NEW AS IT CAN ONLY BE USDM MOTOR IF THE VEH. WAS NOT ALREADY EQUIPED WITH THAT MOTOR.
EX.
1990 CIVIC WITH JDM B16A NO NO NO!!!
1990 CIVIC WITH USDM B16A3 OR B16A2 OR B18C5 OR B18C1 BLAH YES YES YES!!!
01-22-2011, 10:32 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
I talked to a ref in so cal in november 2010. I was doing an ls integra with a GSR swap. But this is what he told me. Lets say a civic, i'm assuming thats what you are doing with the b16. As long as a civic came with a B16 in it in the U.S. which it did in the 99-00 civic si, then the JDM B16a is considered a OEM replacement motor for the civic. And you would not need to BAR. You would only need to BAR for instance, a USDM GSR motor in a civic, because the civic did not come with that motor in the U.S.. But for smog, you would need the USDM OBD1 P30 B16 intake manifold with purge solonoid, and the USDM B16A3 engine harness, and the USDM P30 ECU, and CARB legal CAI and Exhaust Manifold. I was in the process of doing this in my 94 dc integra, but the harness and ecu, are rare and hard to find clean. As far as i know, nothing has changed with the smog ref regarding all of this. It would be actually cheaper and easier (i think, my opinion) to get a usdm GSR, and ecu, and harness and get that bar'd into your civic. These parts are alot easier to find.
FYI, B16A3 was first available in the US in 93-95 Vtec Del Sols, and those are where the OBD1 P30 ECU and intake manifolds are found. However, those are only good for OBD1 swaps. Due to the limited amount of that specific Honda model in the US, those emission parts are hard to find. If you are swapping into a 96 & up body, you can't use them because your car is OBD2 and needs to have OBD2 components to BAR, that's when you look into the 99 & up Civi Si's B16A2 for parts.
You're right on the fact that it is so much easier to BAR a GSR B18C than a B16A due to more available parts, not to mention a more worthwhile upgrade in term of power out of the box.
01-22-2011, 10:40 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
Do yourself a favor and walk to the ref station, talk to him directly. Tell him you have a JDM engine that has been brought to US specs with all US emission components, will he BAR it if everything is hooked up properly.
I had my JDM B18C BAR'd in my 89 CRX last year. I converted to US emission standards by using the 94-95 USDM GSR intake manifold, USDM P72-A01 ECU with OBD1 wiring harness.
One other thing to note, there are hundreds of ref stations throughout CA, and not all of them will follow the same book (if there is even a book). It's not a bad idea to go to different refs to get a feel for who's more willing to work with you. Just be professional, don't give them the wrong vibe that you're just another dumb street racer to be.
I had my JDM B18C BAR'd in my 89 CRX last year. I converted to US emission standards by using the 94-95 USDM GSR intake manifold, USDM P72-A01 ECU with OBD1 wiring harness.
One other thing to note, there are hundreds of ref stations throughout CA, and not all of them will follow the same book (if there is even a book). It's not a bad idea to go to different refs to get a feel for who's more willing to work with you. Just be professional, don't give them the wrong vibe that you're just another dumb street racer to be.
01-23-2011, 01:50 AM
#24
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Thread Starter
Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
its true what ldo said im going on monday to find out i called the station in the 858 area on friday to talk about the jumper harness they didnt even know what the hell i was talking about so im a have to call around but even though i might be able to ref the b16 i really want a b18c and im just trying to trade it even if it needs a rebuild.
01-30-2011, 10:58 PM
#25
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Re: Another bar'd question jdm b16a
i got my jdm b16 ref'd in my eg bout a yr ago at south western college. i had to convert it to obd1 and install all the emissions a usdm vtec del sol would have.