Notices
All Motor / Naturally Aspirated No power adders

K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-21-2019, 12:12 PM
  #1  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Hey guys I've been working on this na build for my 2000 insight to replace the unbearably slow 1 liter 3 cylinder it currently has. The main goal for the car is to have a fun daily driver that I can auto cross and do touge driving with. So far I'm extremely impressed with the cars handling especially since it's on 165/65/14 Bridgestone re92 fuel economy tires. I would like to maintain decent fuel efficiency out of the setup but if the cost is a good amount of performance I'm ok with a little worse fuel economy.

I plan on doing this build in stages so I can determine what engine has an adequate amount of power to meet my needs. I don't want to over build it but I also don't want to swap something in and feel like it's a turd either. I've acquired quite a few parts for cheap or free. Looking for some feedback, pointers and advice from all motor d series lovers. ive never been a big fan of single cams but I feel like the engine makes sense for this car. The car currently weighs 1750lbs with a 1/4 tank of gas. A sub in a small tube in the trunk. Full interior and still has the dc/dc converter in the trunk for the ima system which has been deleted.

"Stage 1 of the build"
-For the z6 block I'm currently putting together it will be 76mm bore, rehoned with new rings, bearings and decked .020" to acquire just under 11 to 1 compression. The y8 head I have ported myself and relapped all valves. I installed d15z7 cam cap/ rockers, cam and three stage vtec solenoid on this y8 head. I drilled out the oil passage to make the 12v to 16v crossover work. As for intake manifold im gonna be using a ported y8 intake manifold. I have already bored the y8 intake manifold to 62mm and fitted a b series 60 mm tb on it. My power goal for the stroker motor is 145/120tq. I have a 1320 unequal length header to test on the car as well as a dc sports 4-2-1. For transmission I will use a cx transmission to start with. I have picked up a y8 trans and installed a phantom grip lsd into it. All the gears look good in the trans as well as the syncros but I need to get a new input shaft bearing from Honda for it. Mpg goal is 50+ mpg give or take. The entire car is dialed in for fuel economy so I think this goal will be achievable."Stage 2 of the build"- I am working on porting a z6 head and doing a very thorough job on it. With this head I would like to run cbr 1000rr itbs on it, a crower stage 3 cam or something similar in size, a short close ratio geared y8 trans and higher compression although I still need to determine how, possibly gx pistons in a different 1.6 block with 94.4mm stroke. I don't plan on building this till I get some quality seat time with the first stage motor to see what I like and don't like so I can determine how to further progress.










Last edited by K7-1Ktrevor; 04-09-2019 at 06:01 AM.
Old 03-22-2019, 04:36 PM
  #2  
Premium Member
 
Aradin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maryland.
Posts: 1,881
Received 163 Likes on 150 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

You're always doing some neat stuff man. Gonna be a fun build.
Old 03-22-2019, 07:14 PM
  #3  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Chrisfrom1986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
Received 178 Likes on 151 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

I'm interested to see how the mounts will be made. Lots of d series people who used the p29 say it isn't worth it. I would also advise against the phantom slip but I suppose a y8 isn't the rarest trans to grenade. Some interesting dimpling going on in that head too.
Old 03-22-2019, 07:25 PM
  #4  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

I've heard good and bad about the phantom grip. One of my customers just installed one in his gsr trans, full weight 95 civic Lx sedan with a bone stock b20 just 1320 header, intake tube with v stack and my tune ran 14.1 @97mph on hx wheels with 660 tread wear tires. I feel like you never know till you try it.

As for intake manifold choice I was eye balling the engine bay and it seems like there won't be enough room for a eddelbrock or skunk2 in there which is fine. So I started to port my y8 manifold today. I think it will be a good compromise between a stock y8 and something aftermarket.

And as far as p29's, my tuning experience has seen both sides, I can tell you an all stock y8 with p29's will be slower then a stock y8 and end up with 12-14 degrees of timing and still detonating lol. I can also share an experience I had with a guy who came down in a 89crx si with d15b7 block milled .060" with p29's and a delta 272 cam, and honestly that car kind of blew my mind. It pulled how a b20 would pull in a crx. It was probably one of the fastest all motor single cams that I've tuned and I was very impressed with it. I remember the fuel curve holding all the way out to 7800 rpms

as far as my d17 stroker motor is going I decided to order a set of 76mm d17a2 pistons and get the block bored. I was noticing the cylinder that the z6 had spun the rod bearing had some wavyness to it and didn't clean up well from me honing it. Also the cylinders seemed egg shaped from being higher miles so I just decided to have some patience and do it right the first time. I would really like to have a d15 in the car first and have it with the cx trans so I have something to look forward to once the stroker motor and y8 trans are ready to go in but I lost out on buying a super healthy d15b7 from a buddy so that might not happen.

Last edited by K7-1Ktrevor; 03-28-2019 at 09:12 PM.
Old 03-22-2019, 07:28 PM
  #5  
-Intl Steve Krew
 
Caoboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 6,046
Received 183 Likes on 161 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Why dimple only on the top of the runners?
Old 03-22-2019, 07:37 PM
  #6  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Originally Posted by Caoboy
Why dimple only on the top of the runners?

the theory in my head was the long radius turn would be the most likely spot for fuel to run into the runner, also I've never liked touching the port floor. I did do some dimpling just above the valve seat. Idk really I figured it was a $20 y8 head and a good chance to experiment. I also have a z6 head I wanna do more of a race port job on and see how it turns out.
Old 03-24-2019, 10:11 AM
  #7  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Just started reworking the ports on this z6 head. I can tell you they are a much better design then the y8 ports. Stock for stock the z6 is way better of a port design for intakes. The longer divider should net more velocity. And they are a much straighter shot. This is just the beginning, can't wait till my 80 grit flap wheels come in to make it actually look like something. I plan on upsizing these ports as much as I can. The z6 block will be 76mmx94.4mm so I'm sure it will require allot more air then a standard 75mmx90. I also made the decision to run the cx tranny off the bat because it will give me something to look forward to once the y8 is ready and I'll be able to make the decision then whether the cx is just way too long for fun or if it will work with the power band of the 1.7. The stock insight gear set is almost identical to the cx and even with only 55hp it's really not all that bad. 2nd gear is perfect for back roads pulling through corners.

Old 03-25-2019, 06:17 AM
  #8  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

I wouldn't put a CX transmission in my worst enemies car. That transmission was strictly designed for better fuel economy. I know you have it as a spare right now but I would use a ex/si trans with a grind in every gear before the CX lol.
Old 03-25-2019, 08:35 AM
  #9  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Lol. I totally understand what you mean. I'm using it as a stepping stone because I don't wanna be shocked going from 60-80mpg with the factory motor to a na d series with a short geared trans right off the bat. It won't take me anytime to change it out and once the mounts are setup they will work for both.
Old 03-26-2019, 10:55 AM
  #10  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Been making some solid progress on the y8 intake manifold. It's crazy how much protrusion the iacv bolt holes had. The blocked off about 30% or runner 4. I will have my friend tony weld up the through hole to make sure there's no chance of a vacuum leak. I'm almost done and ready for it to be welded back up I just wanna try to clean up the runners as much as I can first.

As for the cx trans, it has identical gears to to the stock 5 speed insight trans which really isn't too bad even with the 55whp it's making so if the car makes another 70-80hp and 60 more torque it should be totally live able for a while. I do allot of long drives with the car so I think it will be a good compromise and if I want to gear it down later it gives me something to look forward to.



Old 03-26-2019, 11:47 AM
  #11  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Those stock insight engines make all their torque very low in the rpm. That works well with that long geared trans. You are moving peak power and torque, much later in the range. The fuel effienecy will still be good. You will meet your 40mpg goal. Although you have essentially created the b16/LS trans combo here just a sohc d series version.

However, don't take my comment as a negative one. I have toyed with out of the box combinations myself.
I look forward to seeing your projects progress. I envy the amount of time you have. Your pictures are detailed and looks like you put a lot of work into anything you do.
Old 03-26-2019, 11:53 AM
  #12  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Maybe with the ima working but mine doesn't have that as I bought the car with a bad ima battery and no intentions to keep it hybrid, it's completely dead below 2 k rpms especially since when the ima system isn't working the ecu retards the timing considerably running it in a "limp mode" As for the b16/ls combo I have to disagree. This motor should have a fair amount of torque especially when comparing torque to weight of the vehicle. It's a 94.4mm stroke motor not a 90 or 84.5mm. It's not going to be a drag car. It will be a dedicated daily driver that I may autocross. 2nd gear should be fine for the majority of corners but like I said I will change the trans out after I feel this one out if I don't like it.


and thanks man, it's perks of being self employed and tuning cars for a living. My down time is my free time so I try to get stuff done when I'm not tuning all day.
Old 03-26-2019, 12:04 PM
  #13  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
Maybe with the ima working but mine doesn't have that as I bought the car with a bad ima battery and no intentions to keep it hybrid, it's completely dead below 2 k rpms especially since when the ima system isn't working the ecu retards the timing considerably running it in a "limp mode" As for the b16/ls combo I have to disagree. This motor should have a fair amount of torque especially when comparing torque to weight of the vehicle. [b]It's a 94.4mm stroke motor not a 90 or 84.5mm[lb]. It's not going to be a drag car. It will be a dedicated daily driver that I may autocross. 2nd gear should be fine for the majority of corners but like I said I will change the trans out after I feel this one out if I don't like it.


and thanks man, it's perks of being self employed and tuning cars for a living. My down time is my free time so I try to get stuff done when I'm not tuning all day.
Yeah, I believe you may have the only dyno numbers I've seen without the IMA. For some reason I thought I read this was going to be a D15b7....Yeah Danz on D-series.org did the D16/17 stroker and it made good power. I want to say it was on stock y8 cam, but I don't remember. I've seen 170whp with d17 stroke and ported head and zex cam before. So it's very possible to make good D series numbers with that combo while being fuel efficient. A 16xx pound chassis plays a huge role there with better mpg. It will be a little sleeper rocket with a ex/si trans though, especially with the Mfactory/OEM close gear combo. A local went 8.0 in 1/8th mile with a 4 door D16/p29 combo. It's the drag racer in me but I see the potential here. lol

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on the b16/LS theory and that's fine. Keep doing your thing!

Tuning for a living has always sounded stressful to me, winter months especially.
Old 03-26-2019, 12:30 PM
  #14  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

You may have seen this but I have this article somewhere at home and remembered this:

D-Series Tech - High Compression Stroker - Honda Tuning Magazine
Old 03-26-2019, 07:37 PM
  #15  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Damn, 8.0 in the 1/8th is what my awd crx did lol. That's moving. As for tuning being stressful, it can be, I've been doing this since 2010 for a living. It definitely helps if your good at managing your money and saving. It also helps that I sold my house and bought a triplex that basically pays for itself and gives me a free place to live. I've just learned winter months are the months where I work on my builds in the down time. Summer time and early spring are usually non stop. I'm having my cam reground and might just have the grinder copy the 59300 cam. I know the ex trans would be way more fun to drive and honestly I'll probably end up swapping it in shortly after but I want to see how the cx feels off the bat. I rode in a buddy's crx that made 480whp on a turbo d series with a crx hf trans and it was honestly funny. Second gear went to 122mph at 8k. It was unbelievably laggy with that trans.
Old 03-27-2019, 04:24 AM
  #16  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default Re: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Yes sir. It's gutted and weighs close to what your insight does, but it's stock stroke and p29s. Simple build.

I couldn't imagine 480whp with HF trans lol.

Last edited by AllMtrRex; 03-27-2019 at 06:34 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 07:44 PM
  #17  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

That's bad ***. And yeah it was pretty odd having that much power and such long gears. I think you may be right about the cx trans. I drove my brother in laws 95 ex today that has my old a6 block, a z6 head and cx tranny and it was just pretty much boring to drive lol. I mean that car is about 4-500lbs heavier then mine and the motor probably isn't the freshest either. I still wanna see how it does with the cx but odds are I'm gonna be taking it out a week after the swap is in lol. I also bought a d15b dual stage vtec head I found on offerup so if my mpg sucks too much I can use that on another motor and definitely bring back some of the fuel efficiency. I think I may be worried about the mpg a bit much but it's like weight reduction. It's easy to obsess over lol.
Old 03-28-2019, 04:24 AM
  #18  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

I think you will meet your 40mpg goal. I've had several stock civic's at 2500 pounds getting mid 30's mpg. You will be burning more fuel and pulling more air with the new D-stroker but also with the option to lean the fuel out in several locations of the map as well. Also, factor in you will be 1600-1700 pounds.
Old 04-02-2019, 07:11 PM
  #19  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Not much progress has been made the last week. Been super busy tuning. I dropped the block off at the machine shop to get the pistons sized and pressed onto the rods. Also having it decked .020" to get it pretty close to 11 to 1 with the y8 head. The cam is at redline cam and cranks in Albany oregon but the guy said they are having some issues with their machine they need to have resolved before they can do it. My buddy tony welded up the y8 intake manifold and I also ordered everything I need to build a set of home made itbs. I'm using 06-07 cbr1000rr throttle bodies and will be using the car injectors in their stock location as well. I've really been wanting to get some hands on tuning experience with itbs but no one around here does them.

Old 04-03-2019, 04:32 AM
  #20  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Your port work looks good. Tony also does a good job welding these manifolds up. You could add ported manifolds to your list of services if you had the time. Years ago, 80% of the members in the all motor section had a ported manifold from one of the various companies that offered it. I realize, this is a niche service today, due to ebay turbo bandwagon. All motor crowd will dwindle more and more each year.
Old 04-03-2019, 09:24 AM
  #21  
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Johnson City TN
Posts: 11,928
Received 37 Likes on 37 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Stock D16Y7 engine and ECU, 2,400 lb 96 hatch, 4,850 cruising RPM, 47mpg.
Old 04-03-2019, 09:30 AM
  #22  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Thanks man. I actually used to do a number of ported heads mostly for my buddies but it's pretty time consuming and even if I charged $20 an hour the total would end up being more then most want to pay. About two years ago I started turning away mechanic work and other stuff like that so I could dedicate my time to just tuning and it's payed off well. I usually work slightly less and make allot more money without the stress of deadlines and having to deal with the broken or janky stuff you normally see on civics. Not that I don't have cars with issues that come for tunes but most of the issues I see I can fix pretty quickly so it's an in and out job then the car leaves. I'm actually really excited to try to build the itbs because Tony's tig welding has gotten really nice now that he's had a good amount of practice and it will be on my own car so I can figure out what works and what doesn't without any time constraints. I think this all motor insight build is really what I wanted out of the black crx but I have a habit of going "full race" on accident with builds instead of keeping it something I can drive and enjoy. And yeah I totally agree, it's sad to see how many clapped out cars have turbo kits half *** installed, leaking oil, no dump tube, some 4" long junk downpipe that points at the radiator and the whole car belongs in the junk yard. Forced induction power is really too easy to make, it kind of takes the fun out of it.
Old 04-03-2019, 09:32 AM
  #23  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Originally Posted by Aquafina
Stock D16Y7 engine and ECU, 2,400 lb 96 hatch, 4,850 cruising RPM, 47mpg.
what tranny? 4.9fd?


Thats pretty rad. I think I should easily hit my goals then for this car.
Old 04-03-2019, 10:29 AM
  #24  
Honda-Tech Member
 
AllMtrRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
I have a habit of going "full race" on accident with builds instead of keeping it something I can drive and enjoy.
I have the same habit. I guess somewhere around my late 20's I started looking at most mid 90-early 2000 hondas as cheap and not really worth dailying anymore. The plus side is, they're light weight, cheap and easy to work on. In the all motor world, it's easier just to cut them up, and run a little more expensive fuel with a mild build than to spend 5k on a CNC head/High compression bottom end and try to run it on 91-93 octane. That's just not the smartest way to me anymore. I guess some like to daily these setups and I prefer to ride in a quiet, comfortable, deal.

Originally Posted by K7-1Ktrevor
And yeah I totally agree, it's sad to see how many clapped out cars have turbo kits half *** installed, leaking oil, no dump tube, some 4" long junk downpipe that points at the radiator and the whole car belongs in the junk yard. Forced induction power is really too easy to make, it kind of takes the fun out of it.
Exactly! That's the norm and then trade for the trend of the month Jeep or similar.
Old 04-03-2019, 11:36 AM
  #25  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
K7-1Ktrevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salem, Or
Posts: 5,382
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Default Re: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight

It definitely takes a little more thought to get something to be comfy enough to daily but still fun. The whole goal for this car is that. It's already pretty light which helps out and the handleing the car has is pretty awesome. Once I get the single cam in I'm probably gonna switch to some federal 185/55/14's from the 165/65/14's it has.


Quick Reply: K7-1Ktrevor project: All motor d series build into a 2000 Honda insight



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:22 AM.