DarryCar

Just had a pretty much catastrophic transmission failure and it is going to call for rebuild. I think all of my launches where I did not properly load the drive train finally caught up with me. I managed to sheer just about every tooth off of the counter shaft that engages with the final drive ring gear. The FD ring gear survived, but a couple of the teeth on the t-case gear and the associated ring gear got banged up. This also caused the bell housing and t-case to crack open. This is a SBXM trans out of a '00 AWD CR-V BTW. I looked into stronger gears and Drag Cartel is the only one I know of right now that is making a set for this trans. There are still not going to be out for another four months and Drag Cartel's gear sets go anywhere from $4000-6000! So I am looking into strengthening the OEM ring gears, t case gear, and counter shaft gear. Shot peening and cryo treating seem to be the two options out there, but which one is better? I've only ever had my crank shot peened and I have had no experience with cryogenic treatment. So I'm all ears! Let me know if you've had experience with either, both, or know someone who has. Thanks in advance.

AllMtrRex

PPG doesnt offer anything? If so, it would still be expensive, I'm sure. What about Liberty gears? They make a face plated option for FWD B series. Good for 600-700whp.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

DarryCar

PPG doesn't offer anything for the SBXM and they only give you 1st-4th for $6200+. Doesn't look like Liberty Gears doesn't make anything for the SBXM either, just FWD B-series. Those are all high end replacement aftermarket parts too. I'm looking to add some strength to the existing OEM parts without having to take a second mortgage out on my home. Thanks for the input guys. I'll keep looking...

Aquafina

iTrader: (3)

Shoot me an email with some details, power, rev limit, tire size, etc. and I can help you out. Chris@wd-r.com

weedburner

Just so you know, here are some other ways of increasing the amount of power that you can put thru a given gearset...

The simplest versions consist of a one-way in-line hydraulic restriction to control the speed of clutch engagement.
Here's a link to Tilton's version... http://tiltonracing.com/wp-content/u...trol-Valve.pdf
Here's a link to ClutchMaster's version... http://www.clutchmasters.com/content/FCV2000diagram.pdf
Upsides...
...relatively easy in-line install between clutch master cyl and hydraulic throwout bearing or slave cylinder.
...protects drivetrain from excessive shock.
...eliminates wheel hop.
...makes dead hook radial launch possible without bogging the engine.
The downsides to these are...
...they require "pre-loading" the clutch prior to launch to minimize the reaction time increase.
…the slow reaction causes excessive clutch slip after quick shifts.
...in-line restriction can cause excess fluid to be drawn past MC piston seals during the clutch pedal's return stroke, causing a "pump-up" effect that results in "missed shifts".

The next step up adds a dial adjustment and solenoid bypass to make the device active on launch only...
Here's a link to the Magnus Launch Controller... Magnus Launch Control Device ? Magnus Motorsports
Here's a link to a version made by MPS Racing... http://www.mpsracing.com/products/MPS/cl03.asp
You can also add a bypass solenoid to the Tilton and ClutchMasters units to get similar results, although they lack having a dial adjustment.
Upsides...
...relatively easy in-line install between clutch master cyl and hydraulic throwout bearing or slave cylinder.
...protects drivetrain from excessive shock on launch.
...clutch engagement speed is adjustable by rotating a dial.
...eliminates excessive clutch slip after the shifts.
...less clutch release "pump-up" effect, as the solenoid can be controlled by some ecu's or a timer.
The downsides to these are...
...they still require "pre-loading" the clutch prior to launch if minimum reaction time is important.
...clutch hit is not as sharp as it could be, as you must compromise between reaction time and clutch slip duration.
...the clutch hit after the shifts is not controlled, making it possible to get wheelhop after the 1/2 shift.
...excessive hit knocks radials loose after the 1/2 shift.

The next step is not a hyd in-line restriction, it controls clutch engagement at the pedal.
Here's a link to my ClutchTamer clutch hit controller... CLUTCHTAMER.COM
Upsides...
...easy install if there is an application specific version for your car.
….protects drivetrain from excessive shock on launch and after the shifts.
...instant pedal release to a preset level of clutch hit intensity.
...clutch hit intensity is adjustable from the driver's seat by rotating a dial.
...no wheelhop on launch or after the shifts.
...no clutch pedal "pump-up" effect because there is no in-line restriction.
...no effect on reaction time, works great for heads-up racing and pro-tree.
...radial friendly on launch and after the shifts.
Downside.
.....installation can be difficult if there is not an application specific version for your car.

We had some import racers switch to us after the WCF race, they got put on the trailer by domestics that were using our ClutchTamer.

Grant

weedburner

We had a Time Attack racer in the UK come to us back in 2014, he was breaking axles/gears/cases in his world record holding AWD Subaru Impreza with 8.20@173. After adding our ClutchTamer hit controller to his pedal box, next time out he went 7.89@173.8. By the end of that season he had bumped the record down to 7.74@179.

Grant

DarryCar

Wow, OK! Lots of good information here. I'll be doing my research on it. Thanks for the links, I appreciate you taking the time.

motoxxxman

I'm going to take a wild guess here by saying the following:
get rid of the solid clutch disc and get a sprung disc. If you are running a solid clutch disc, I can practically guarantee that is your entire problem.
My next guess would be worn out transmission bearings including the diff bearings. if the bearings are not in excellent condition, and if the main shaft is not shimmed properly, and if the diff is not shimmed properly, you WILL grenade gears.
In healthy form, you should be able to hold 400tq with all stock internals no problem, especially if you use a decent trans fluid like Torco MTF or a blend of Torco MTF and RTF.

DarryCar

I am running the ACT 6 puck and thinking it is about time to switch it up to something a little better. I replaced all of the bearings in the trans and the diff when I did the conversion, so they only have about 4000 miles on them. Main shaft and diff where shimmed properly according to my measurements. I've only used Honda fluids and will be moving to Torco this time around. The car has been putting over 400tq to the wheels even before the AWD conversion with the last tune generating 430tq.

Thanks for bringing up the clutch, I tend to forget about that piece. When I did the conversion I had my doubts that the 6 puck would keep up with the AWD system. I figured it would blow up or just have tremendous amount of slip. I didn't even think about it destroying trans and/or diff parts. Figured the clutch would be the weak link in the system and fail first.

motoxxxman

Ah, that torque figure would have been good info to know from the start lol. That is about borderline what the stock internals can handle; now I see why you're asking these questions.
As for the clutch though, being a puck disc isn't what matters. In fact, it's really your only option for your power level unless you go to a twin disc setup. The part that matters for a street car is the disc being sprung or unsprung. For a street car, you want a sprung disc, which is only available in 6-puck configuration.

DarryCar

I'm looking into a twin clutch configuration. The price for those jump up significantly from a traditional single clutch setup. Not sure which is best either with all of the different manufacturers. Any suggestions? I'll have to do my research on this as well.

As far as the topic of this thread goes, so far I have just been told that the cryogenic treatments are more of gimmick. The little research that I have done on it has started to point in that direction as well. Supposedly there is no true way to test parts that have been treated to see if they are in fact stronger. So, I'm no longer looking into cryo as an option. I have been told by a couple of people to look into DLC and WPC as options. I was also told that DLC is outrageously expensive, which makes sense as anything that involves diamonds usually is. I may end up doing the WPC, but just on everything in the trans that didn't brake this time around. For the parts that did brake; counter shaft, FD ring gear, t case gear, and t case ring gear, I am thinking are going to need something a bit more stout than what a treatment can provide. Something along the lines of billet steel.....?

weedburner

Stay away from lite weight dual disc clutches, stuff as much clutch inside that small bellhousing that you can. A lite weight dual can have a lot of torque capacity, but low mass will limit how long it can slip before incurring damage.

Choose a clutch with plenty of thermal mass, something you can slip a bit before reaching it's critical temp, which will in turn allow you to use a clutch hit controller to maximum effect. Not only will the hit controller soften the hit on your gears, but it will also help the engine hold rpm after launch which equals more power. That added power will far more than offset the loss of spinning up a heavier clutch in a drag race setting, even more so when you have a turbo.

Grant

motoxxxman

the clutch fluid restrictor you're describing should only be used if the transmission has dogbox gears. Because the slowed down clutch engagement is only ideal for the launch. You don't want it to do the same every single shift or you'll burn the clutch up and lose a TON of time in each shift.

weedburner

motoxxxman

weedburner; I was not aware such a thing existed. I thought you were referring to a simple in-line restrictor fitting.
Very informative, and now I want to look into it more for my car lol. Thank you.