Aluminum weld or patch?
02-01-2018, 04:48 PM
#1
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Aluminum weld or patch?
ok whatup I got my build running and when I first started the build about 5 years ago I put in the knock sensor too tight and it cracked the hole it threads into. Anyways I got the hole welded shut. But the weld wasn’t tight enough I guess because when it’s at idle and there is oil pressure it leaks oil from the weld. So I need to patch this weld on the back of the block. Idk if there’s something like an aluminum JB weld/ high strength silicon/ or if I’m gonna have to get an aluminum welder and have it welded in this hard to reach spot. Lmk what you guys think. Thanks!!!
02-03-2018, 03:49 PM
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
Hello, so I am new to the forum but I happen to own a welding fabrication shop and weld a lot of aluminum and stainless. Sounds like whoever welded it did not get it clean enough and got some contaminates trapped inside the weld causing the leak. The thing about welding aluminum is that it has to be absolutely clean. Zero contaminates or else it fails, i.e. your situation. It really needs to be drilled out a little and welded again, properly, to ensure it actually seals because now you are dealing with a weld that is currently contaminated, heating it back up and adding more filler won't remove the contaminates. You could get luck and at least get it to stop leaking but you are still left with a bad weld and that is a shot in the dark. I am guessing the motor is currently in the car? If so, no welder can reach that spot to fix it. I wouldn't even attempt any type of JB weld or sealants like that. They never seal permanently and I doubt it would work at all in this situation of a leaky weld. If you look for a welder do a bunch of research and look at their previous work (they will have pics) before you trust someone to do it. An aluminum block is extremely difficult to weld and takes someone who definitely knows what they are doing. Not just some average MIG or arc welder who has access to a TIG machine. That is what will fix it right anyways.
02-04-2018, 09:55 AM
#3
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
Hello, so I am new to the forum but I happen to own a welding fabrication shop and weld a lot of aluminum and stainless. Sounds like whoever welded it did not get it clean enough and got some contaminates trapped inside the weld causing the leak. The thing about welding aluminum is that it has to be absolutely clean. Zero contaminates or else it fails, i.e. your situation. It really needs to be drilled out a little and welded again, properly, to ensure it actually seals because now you are dealing with a weld that is currently contaminated, heating it back up and adding more filler won't remove the contaminates. You could get luck and at least get it to stop leaking but you are still left with a bad weld and that is a shot in the dark. I am guessing the motor is currently in the car? If so, no welder can reach that spot to fix it. I wouldn't even attempt any type of JB weld or sealants like that. They never seal permanently and I doubt it would work at all in this situation of a leaky weld. If you look for a welder do a bunch of research and look at their previous work (they will have pics) before you trust someone to do it. An aluminum block is extremely difficult to weld and takes someone who definitely knows what they are doing. Not just some average MIG or arc welder who has access to a TIG machine. That is what will fix it right anyways.
02-04-2018, 02:19 PM
#5
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
Hmmmm... the knock sensor boss is not an open hole to any oil passage way, so it would help if you could take a close up photo of the damaged area so that we can get a better idea of what issue you are having. Assuming that welding is the only solution, then you will have to do as Caoboy has suggested... removing the engine, disassembling it completely and then cleaning and welding up the suspected area. If this turns out to be a low pressure or oil drain back passage, you may be able to repair it using HondaBond or maybe even a two part epoxy from the outside without engine removal/disassembly.
02-05-2018, 04:56 AM
#7
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
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02-05-2018, 09:31 PM
#8
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02-08-2018, 03:07 AM
#9
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02-08-2018, 07:27 AM
#10
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
the permatex didn’t work.... kinda saw that coming. If I take the IM off you could easily reach it with a TIG or MIG even..... there has got to be a way around getting metal in the oil and having to disassemble the block.
02-08-2018, 04:37 PM
#11
-Intl Steve Krew
Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
Won't work bro.
AL needs to be CLEAN CLEAN for a solid non-leaking weld. Not to mention it's a pressurized system, which will essentially force the oil through any pinholes.
I leak test stuff daily at work, the penetrant dye will find its way through the smallest pinholes or any spot that the weld did not 100% penetrate.
On top of all that, it would be a bitch to try to weld that shut inside the car. Best bet,in my opinion, is to pull the block so that old weld can be ground off and the post of that orifice be ground flat and cleaned well so that it can be capped shut with a nice solid tig weld.
Other solution would be to grind it flat enough and far enough passed the weld so it can be drilled, if needed, and tapped so you can plug it with a threaded plug.
AL needs to be CLEAN CLEAN for a solid non-leaking weld. Not to mention it's a pressurized system, which will essentially force the oil through any pinholes.
I leak test stuff daily at work, the penetrant dye will find its way through the smallest pinholes or any spot that the weld did not 100% penetrate.
On top of all that, it would be a bitch to try to weld that shut inside the car. Best bet,in my opinion, is to pull the block so that old weld can be ground off and the post of that orifice be ground flat and cleaned well so that it can be capped shut with a nice solid tig weld.
Other solution would be to grind it flat enough and far enough passed the weld so it can be drilled, if needed, and tapped so you can plug it with a threaded plug.
02-09-2018, 12:22 AM
#12
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
Won't work bro.
AL needs to be CLEAN CLEAN for a solid non-leaking weld. Not to mention it's a pressurized system, which will essentially force the oil through any pinholes.
I leak test stuff daily at work, the penetrant dye will find its way through the smallest pinholes or any spot that the weld did not 100% penetrate.
On top of all that, it would be a bitch to try to weld that shut inside the car. Best bet,in my opinion, is to pull the block so that old weld can be ground off and the post of that orifice be ground flat and cleaned well so that it can be capped shut with a nice solid tig weld.
Other solution would be to grind it flat enough and far enough passed the weld so it can be drilled, if needed, and tapped so you can plug it with a threaded plug.
AL needs to be CLEAN CLEAN for a solid non-leaking weld. Not to mention it's a pressurized system, which will essentially force the oil through any pinholes.
I leak test stuff daily at work, the penetrant dye will find its way through the smallest pinholes or any spot that the weld did not 100% penetrate.
On top of all that, it would be a bitch to try to weld that shut inside the car. Best bet,in my opinion, is to pull the block so that old weld can be ground off and the post of that orifice be ground flat and cleaned well so that it can be capped shut with a nice solid tig weld.
Other solution would be to grind it flat enough and far enough passed the weld so it can be drilled, if needed, and tapped so you can plug it with a threaded plug.
Last edited by lolv8s; 02-09-2018 at 02:44 AM.
02-09-2018, 03:30 PM
#13
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
Don't even think about trying to weld that with a spool gun or MIG welder of any kind. It has to be TIG. And don't use any oil when drilling. It will just make welding it that much harder. Listen to Caoboy, aluminum has to be CLEAN! Even great looking welds can leak when you spray that red dye on it. High powered vacuum ain't going to cut it, man. Must be ground down, opened up a bit ( whether it's a groove or dilled out just a bit), cleaned multiple times with acetone and wire brush, let dry and TIG weld.
02-09-2018, 04:14 PM
#14
-Intl Steve Krew
Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
alright. Is the aluminum at your work the same grade as the engine block I’m working with? Or does it not matter either way? What about this. I drill it out. Using plenty of grease so the metal sticks close. Get a high powered vacuum and suck out the oil passage for any remnants of metal/ grease. Then plug it. Or grind down/ sand the old weld. And cover it all with a good MIG weld. What would be my best bet? I need to have a weld or plug that will hold up to 70-80 psi
Like Huff said, a vacuum is not going to work, it's gonna need to be flushed out and then cleaned with acetone at minimum. Then you'll need to find somebody who can actually TIG weld it. Good work isn't cheap, cheap work isn't good, hence your current situation....
02-11-2018, 10:51 PM
#16
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
MIG welding and aluminum should not be in the same sentence, unless you're telling someone they shouldn't be MIG welding aluminum!
Like Huff said, a vacuum is not going to work, it's gonna need to be flushed out and then cleaned with acetone at minimum. Then you'll need to find somebody who can actually TIG weld it. Good work isn't cheap, cheap work isn't good, hence your current situation....
Like Huff said, a vacuum is not going to work, it's gonna need to be flushed out and then cleaned with acetone at minimum. Then you'll need to find somebody who can actually TIG weld it. Good work isn't cheap, cheap work isn't good, hence your current situation....
02-11-2018, 10:53 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
MIG welding and aluminum should not be in the same sentence, unless you're telling someone they shouldn't be MIG welding aluminum!
Like Huff said, a vacuum is not going to work, it's gonna need to be flushed out and then cleaned with acetone at minimum. Then you'll need to find somebody who can actually TIG weld it. Good work isn't cheap, cheap work isn't good, hence your current situation....
Like Huff said, a vacuum is not going to work, it's gonna need to be flushed out and then cleaned with acetone at minimum. Then you'll need to find somebody who can actually TIG weld it. Good work isn't cheap, cheap work isn't good, hence your current situation....
02-19-2018, 06:42 AM
#18
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
02-19-2018, 08:02 PM
#19
-Intl Steve Krew
Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
There's literally no room to get a grinder in there.
Are you 100% sure that's where the leak is coming from?
Also, I found your injector clip
Are you 100% sure that's where the leak is coming from?
Also, I found your injector clip
02-20-2018, 06:34 AM
#20
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
I mean I could make room removing the oil filter, coolant pipe, and the BWR catch can line. Or I mean sand it by hand the old school way. And yea I remember seeing it flowing out of the weld.
03-23-2018, 03:50 PM
#21
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
I pulled the swap back out today. I still need to remove this JB weld I tried though. I’m just gonna hit it with a blow torch. JB weld is supposed to come off at 600~F and aluminum is supposed to melt at about double the temperature. I’m scared of cracking damaging this 25 year old aluminum block though. Any pre cautions? Maybe warm up around the main spot I’m going to be getting to 600F? Thanks guys
03-25-2018, 06:19 PM
#22
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Re: Aluminum weld or patch?
ok I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. In theory it should work if the welds are done right. But build a cup like structure out of aluminum. And then clean/sand around the weld. And weld the cup around the weld. Would be like an add-on/extend part of the block. Any recommendation on the kind of aluminum I should use to build the cup structure out of? Sheet aluminum/ cast aluminum?
I pulled the swap back out today. I still need to remove this JB weld I tried though. I’m just gonna hit it with a blow torch. JB weld is supposed to come off at 600~F and aluminum is supposed to melt at about double the temperature. I’m scared of cracking damaging this 25 year old aluminum block though. Any pre cautions? Maybe warm up around the main spot I’m going to be getting to 600F? Thanks guys
03-30-2018, 08:47 AM
#24
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