hcaulfield57

Hi all, I have a stock D15B7 in my 93' Civic DX hatchback. It has over 210,000 miles on it. It burns a lot of oil (~1 qt per week) and I'm sick of buying oil and having to constantly check the oil level. I bought this car specifically for autocross and as I don't want to get bumped into a higher class, please don't suggest some type of engine swap. I'd love to do a B-series swap, but it's not going to happen for that reason. The way I see it I have the following options:

1) fix whatever the problem is
2) do a complete rebuild of the engine
3) purchase a known good condition used engine
4) buy a different hatch with a good condition engine and swap my suspension bits over

I'm leaning towards #1, but I'm sick of working on the engine. I feel like I fix one thing, and then it's just off to the next thing to break, and I'm wondering if any of the other options make more sense to people who have been down this road before. I have not done a compression check but the engine seems to have plenty of power (well at least it doesn't feel painfully slow). It burns oil on start up and on light throttle so I'm pretty sure it's the valve-stem seals which is a known problem on higher mileage D-series engines. This is a pretty easy fix, but I'm worried that I'm polishing a turd and should just tear the whole thing down. But if I'm going to take the engine out I might as well do an entire rebuild which adds up with all the little things.

I'm mostly looking for advice or ideas from people who have dealt with higher mileage engines (and didn't intend to the sell the car). I have too much money invested into the EG chassis (and I quite like the platform), so I'm owning an EG hatch one way or the other. Thanks everyone!

DumpdEJ6

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I am aware, smoking at start up and light throttle sounds more like rings. If I recall correctly, valve seals smoke when giving it throttle after decel in gear. I would definitely do a cold and hot compression test, that should at least tell you if you're correct or not.

Could you not do another single cam swap, D16z6 or something without going up in class?

hcaulfield57

It would not surprise me if it's the rings and the valve-stem seals. The way I see it, if I take the engine apart at minimum I have to replace bearings, rings, valve-stem seals (maybe valves), etc... It's just a lot of money to spend on a D15, but I guess I put myself in this situation. When I bought the car, I knew it burned some oil, but it's been getting worse and worse over the year I've owned it so far.

I built the car for STS, my understanding is that a D16Z6 could be swapped in ONLY if the remainder of the car was brought up to Si specification. I might as well just buy an Si at that point, but I prefer my lighter DX for my purposes. There's really not much that can be done with the engine in this class, which is all the same since the D15B7 isn't really going to make much power.

TomCat39

I would buy another used D15B7 and look around for a D16A6 camshaft.

You can drop the cam into the b7 head and then you just need crome tune on it and you got a Beast7. Will likely net you around the Z6 power without vtec.

It's also discreet but not sure if you are into bending the rules and keeping it to yourself.

hcaulfield57

Where would one find a D15B7? I assume shipping would probably be more than the engine is worth, so just look around local Craig's List or junkyards I guess? I imagine there are a lot of these engines around.

TomCat39

Salvage yards are a high probability. If I recall US side you had the 92-95 DX and LX that had the B7. CX had the weaker B8. EX has the Z6.

Canada all CX,DX and LX from 92-95 had the B7.

Craigslist might work too as someone might be swapping out their B7 for a Z6 or B series and just want to dump their running B7.

hcaulfield57

Still haven't done anything engine-wise with the car. It's definitely getting worse.

I really don't want to put the time or effort into rebuilding this current engine, still trying to figure out what to do. I've been thinking about a B16A swap, but price-wise it seems like $2,500 is about the going rate which is a bit more than I'd like to spend. I'm also worried that would dramatically change the "feel" of the car it currently has. I find the peppy but not fast nature of the car fun, so I don't know if it would be so fast or so peaky that it would take away from the driving enjoyment on the street. I used to have a 91' Nissan 300ZX Twin-Turbo which was fast, but I found it too fast to really be fun. I've also considered doing a D15B VTEC or D16Z6 swap as well. I've not given up on autocross, but I haven't had that much time for it lately and figure I'm not going to be competitive anyways, I might as well just enjoy the car.

Megalodong

Consider a JDM B20b swap. Can find a low-compression non-vtec JDM B20b for around $450-550. Many options for stock B-series obd1 ECU's to run it or purchase a basemap ECU from a reputable seller online.

the171

I understand the class thing. But a D is not the greatest track engine. These were hardly ok in the day. They hardly hold up on the road. Blown head gaskets, over heating, oil burning. Tons of civics needed engine replacements before the end of the car. Maybe its an ok motor if youre trying to save on fuel. Although a vw diesel of the same vintage was even better in that department. Of course there are people who loves the single slam and stuff. Or the odd person who went 9s and whatever. But The f22/ f23 was a much better single cam. Way more robust. Ds are small, weak. Why invest time and money into it. An old subaru or corolla or rx7 would be better if you like that kind of old/ basic race class.

For a civic A B can be used for real racing. These motors were really flawless, super strong and long lasting. A B16 is not very fast but can be lots of fun and is very tough, almost indestructible in stock form. Down shift to 9500rpm its ok it likes it and your audience will like the noise. Plus you get a much better transmission selection. Everything about it is way better. Or even make an LSVTEC or b20vtec with $2500 it could be done with used parts. Which is not much money for a racing engine. This is probably the cheapest half decent racing engine available. And its not like the car is too powerful with a b16. Its only 125whp if you set it up well. Its just that a B16 is made for a track. Unlike a D which is not.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

A leakdown test or compression test might tell you something. If the oil rings are gummed up, I don't know of a formal test to determine that.

If you don't want to rebuild, look into getting a D15B from H-Motors online or another engine importer.

Either way, there isn't usually an easy fix. Valve guid seals aren't too tought to do, but it doesn't sound like that's the issue.

hcaulfield57

I'm somewhat leaning towards a B16A, I'd like to take my car to track days, which I think it would lend itself to. I want to keep autocrossing, but my gripe with autocrossing is you get very little seat-time.

Funny you mention a RX-7, I have an 83' RX-7 which has an absolutely amazing engine, but I can't figure out the handling. My Civic doesn't handle perfectly, but it's a lot better than my RX-7. I used to hate Civics, Hondas and FWD in general, but once I got my Civic I understood. 90's Hondas are really solid, great drivers cars.

Yea I know valve seals are not that time-consuming, it's just I feel like I'm putting lipstick on a pig at this point. I start the car every morning and smoke everywhere. High RPMs give me a lot of smoke, light throttle gives me a lot of smoke, letting off the throttle gives me smoke. I add a quart of oil every week.

hcaulfield57

Will a B16A negatively affect the handling in an EG hatch? Looks like the deck height is lower than a D15B7 and I'd assume the equal-length driveshafts would reduce/eliminate torque-steer, but looks like a B16A has an increased weight of about 100lbs over the front of the car. Maybe it's not enough change to notice? I'd hate to muck up the handling in my car with an engine swap. As it currently stands the car is very neutral and nimble on it's feet and a lot of fun to drive.

Ericjergs

Regarding SCCA rules... if you wanted to swap in a z6...I'm fairly certain you'll be put into FSP with that swap where you'll probably be fairly competitive. The B16 will throw you into Street Modified for sure though.

hcaulfield57

Interesting, looks like your reading is probably correct. Looks like that would allow a LSD as well, although my understanding is a LSD with unequal-length driveshafts will create lots of torque-steer problems. The thing is my driving is pretty bad even against cars I should be way faster than, it's just hard to practice since you get like a few minutes each event.

Ericjergs

Yeah that's probably the worst thing about Autocross. If you haven't already, look around for local groups that don't have as much people. You can sometimes get a ton of seat time that way.

the171

Nah, check out youtube for racing videos. Plenty fast cars out there with heavier setups.

Wonabe

I rebuilt my b7 at like 280,000 after driving it forever smoking. Finally one day it began billowing white smoke like a train. Anyway total rebuild cost was around $150 usd. That's not using a cheap ebay special bundle either. IIRC this also included a metal cometic HG. New valves, springs, keepers, rings, bearings. Literally every gasket, seal, even assembly lube. All quality stuff, FelPro has a great package put together for seals/gaskets that's very affordable and comprehensive.

As far as difficulty it took one weekend. I was 17 and a very novice mechanic at the time, I did it with my dad using basic hand tools. With the equipment I own now it would be a one day job to overhaul the D. There are many "tricks" if you don't have a nice garage yet. For instance I had no engine hoist so we dropped the oil pan to gain access to the bearings. A factory service manual is a HUGE help, infinitely better than a Haynes or Chiltons. If you decide to refresh your old D I'd be happy to post pics of the pertinent pages from my own physical copy.

tamboo

sent you a link to helm manual.
look for tbk or aisin kits on amazon/ebay.
top notch all made in japan parts. arousing to say the least. 8)

Megalodong

**** and *****.

hcaulfield57

Would the reliability / life-expectancy of a refreshed engine (bearings, seals, rings, etc) be pretty good? My only experience with rebuilding an engine required machining the head, crank, etc. Those are things I would want to avoid if rebuilding the stock D15B7 due to the associated cost.

Wonabe

It'll be fine, I sold mine after 60k problem free miles. Unless your crank is egg shaped or the head/block warped from overheating or something there's no reason it needs machined. A valve job, hot tank etc would be nice as would having them handle assembly but nothing you can't DIY. Tbh a bronze wire wheel to the valves is fine, lapping would be better but not critical.

it's one of those things like head bolts where the "general consensus" was established by builders with more money than sense. They're not TTY and do not stretch with normal use despite what every "rebuild guide" on the D I've read says. Unless you overtorque them you can re use almost infinitely. This is assuming stock applications, ARP studs are a must to prevent lifting on a heavily modified engine

Red-Ricer

get used oil for it lol.ran fine when pulled. would burn two litres per week at least, for a year.

It Wasn't Me

Very helpful post.

I can understand why the mods haven't bothered to delete it.

Megalodong

I was wondering the same thing. just posted it out of boredom. I think the mods have mellowed out lately since there's not as many (non-moderators) nit-picking douche-bags on this forum as there used to be.

TomCat39

It also assumes that moderators have no life and read every post of every thread because relying on users to report posts just isn't a good idea.

But you know, ex moderators are always better than any current moderator and make sure everyone knows that they have no life by reading every post in every thread so as to point out any detail missed.