Kompressorbengt

Hi!

What setup do you recommend for crankcase ventilation on a turbo'd B16?

I have 2 AN-fittings on the back of my block and I am going to fit 2x AN-fittings in my valvecover as well.

Do I simply need to plug off the hose-connection on the back end of my valvecover and connect the AN-fittings/hoses to the catchcan? Can I run all 4 AN-connections to the same catchcan?

Regards
Sebastian

civic-steve-94

Most people cut off the fitting and remove the part that is inside the valve cover and weld it shut. Yes you run all 4 lines to the same catch can. Run the lines that go to the block to the bottom of the catch can and the two off the valve cover to the top. Try and get the lines off the valve cover to the catch can as parallel as possible, or the catch can sightly lower so oil doesn't drain back into the valve cover.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I find that overly complicated. I simply use the 2 main ports at the back of the block to the catch can, the breather box port to the bottom (if you want drainback), NO valve cover fittings, and an S80 Volvo one way check valve going from the intake manifold to the valve-cover nipple as though it were OEM. Did the job perfectly.

(excuse the many pictures, I was trying to show an overall picture of what I did.)










But, if you already have the 2 bungs welded into the valve cover, then you can go with Civic-Steve-94's idea, as I just didn't want to do that to the valvecovers when they weren't necessary.

Kompressorbengt

Thank you, I appreciate the pictures. Am I thinking wrong, or wouldn't this allow oil fumes from the valve cover fitting into the intake manifold?

Kompressorbengt

Does the level/placement/height matter as long as its below the level of the fittings into the valve cover? I were planning to mount the catchcan behind the left headlight.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yes, you want it as high above the engine block oil sump (pan) as you can. Keep the catch can lines short, so back of the engine bay is best, so any oil/condensation spill doesn't affect the rest of the car.

civic-steve-94

Mr The Shodan I like you set up with the one way valve to the intake. The only reason i don't like recirculating the oil vapor into the intake is it makes a mess, and in my opinion it not totally necessary for a race vehicle

mrsteezy123

i guess it depends how much power you want, at around 320whp i have zero issues with just the two ports on the back of the block, with 5/8 hose running to the can, no drain back and it doesn't ever overfill.

if you're going big, use two ports on the back to the can, and use one an12 port on the valve cover and weld another an12 on the downpipe and vent through the exhaust that will work as a air pump sucking the pressure out, without pressurizing the crank.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's why it's a one way check valve. It doesn't re-circulate anything. And I use the same setups in my Time Attack vehicle. If' that doesn't qualify as a race application, please tell me what does.

civic-steve-94

Sorry The Shodan I wasn't trying to sound rude or anything your advice is much appreciated. I just figured it would still get some amount of oil vapor back in to the intake manifold. I will probably try this out on a friends all motor b20 vtec build

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Oh no no no.. No offense taken. I just thought you had come to that conclusion because you didn't see that it was a one-way automotive check valve that was used in my methodology to prevent that very issue oil vapor in the intake manifold. I can go in there now and you'd see it is bone dry.

These are on some of a few 500+whp setups I've helped with too. Mainly those that use partial throttle more than Full throttle like in a drag strip.

Kompressorbengt

Thanks again for the pictures and detailed description. I will most likely go with your setup.

Just one more silly question. Where are the drainback connections located on the block? I can't seem to find them.

Regards

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

you get adapters for them. They are the two water freeze plugs on the back of the block. There is a 28m to -6AN adapter available for them, and there are also Factory fittings from the Prelude that work using barb or hose connections, but I don't remember the specific part numbers.

JKaze

You mean this, partnumber 11107-PK2-003 (and gasketring for that 12207-634-300)?




Oh and sorry ot, I send you TheShodan pm couple a week ago but your inbox is probably full.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yep. the very one. Thank you.

And the PM you sent was to the wrong account. There's The Shodan (incorrect), and TheShodan (with no space in-between the words.) You want the second one. Sorry about that.

JKaze

You are wellcome.

Yep, i checked it and i send it to this second one, same which you are using right now. But another try.

Chance EG

Shodan, two questions:

1) With your setup, I noticed you don't have a vacuum source for PCV scavenging. With the two plugs on the back of the block, I'm assuming enough pressure is relieved to not need a vacuum?

2) How much oil do you lose using this setup in various conditions? I've heard using the freeze plugs on the back of the block cause more oil to be pulled through the lines as opposed to using fittings on the valve cover. I'm not sure what other factors are being considered there however; I've always just used the VC for vents, catch can to atmosphere, but I've been reconsidering that practice on my current project.

My plan was to use the Mishimoto 3 port closed system catch can, with two fittings on the VC going "in", and a line going to the intake tube for "out" as a vacuum source/recirculate. I was also planning on running the same check valve setup you did for the OEM line.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

1) The intake manifold is the vacuum source, just like with the older PCV system as it was setup originally. (I even routed the hose as though that plastic 90* PCV was still there) The S80 one-way check valve is what made it a bit different to keep it within vacuum even under positive boost pressure conditions. I was at over 530whp when I did that setup, and pressure released fine.

2) Before this PCV system was added to my catch can setup, I used to lose a LOT of oil by way of crankcase overfill into the catch can, to where it couldn't drain back, and would make a mess of the rear of the bay. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me for months. Thanks to my friend (and engine builder who has done these setups in everything from 84 Supras, to 69 Camaros, to Evolution 3-10,) he came up with the original idea and I tweaked it a bit, and it came out great.. We realized, these cars need a PCV system. ... Now, I don't lose a drop. Dip stick stayed consistent with oil, no contamination, and the back of my engine stays clean, even with the drain back system. So... Back of the block does just fine!

Chance EG

Thank you for the response. I didn't know that would still work as a vacuum source for the vapors since it wasn't scavenged to the catch can itself. Just to confirm, that can you have isn't vented right? Just a sealed unit?

Sorry for all the nitpicky questions, I've just done a lot of reading on these lately and I think I've managed to actually confuse myself more than learn anything... lol. There seem to be a lot of "ok/good" ways to do it, I'm just looking for the best.

For example here, where the catch can has it's own vacuum scavenge off the intake elbow: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...7-b18-1490117/

Also the intake elbow would always have vacuum, where the intake manifold from the stock PCV system would sometimes have positive pressure.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

NO, so we're clear, there is a Filter on the top of the can itself, I just didn't take a picture of it on there, as it wasn't the original purpose of the photo.
I never understood the exhaust energy vacuum scavenge method. This is about fluid dynamics, not vacuum. If it's done wrong.. it becomes an even bigger mess than stock.

You're going to rack your brain doing this.. You must remember. "There is no BEST. Only the Best for YOUR NEEDS"

I did mine the way I did it for several specific reasons :

1) I like the idea of an improvised PCV system using automotive check valves, and not from aftermarket or some aquatic piece of equipment

2) I change valve covers sometimes, and don't want those ridiculous bungs welded on my valve covers, and I don't want to make them worse by "plugging them up" if needed

3) I don't need a battery-sized catch can for the purpose of my build. (Hell, MOST builds don't need them from what I've seen on H-T) I don't have race rules / regulations to worry about the size of containment I must have in order to run at their track (which is why these got popular in the 1st place), and I have a drain-back system that is just fine without oil contamination

4) I like clean and simple. If I have to change cans in an emergency from another company for some reason, I'm not hunting all over the place, or spending $500 to have it done, or made..

Kompressorbengt

Whats the diameter of the s80 one way valve hose fittings? i need to order a similar one myself, but the s80 valves have ridiculous prices where I am.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I believe it's a 3/8th hose. I'm nowhere near the car this week. These use a barbed fitting, and you can find them anywhere online, be it International or US Domestic. They go from about $8 - $15.1999-2006 Volvo S80 Booster Check Valve - ATE W0133-1639748 or 1228272.


https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/720...Valve-1228272/

jdblock

Why can't you have a drain-back system with an exhaust scavenging system? It's just a vacuum source.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You can try again if you want to, of course, it's your choice. But from the ones I've experienced, the vacuum was actually too strong, in some cases, that it can actually pull sloshing oil right out of the block.
Like many vacuum sources that people try to use in retrofit applications, there is such a thing as too strong a source, which is why I've always advocated the use of the Intake manifold as a more consistent vacuum source vs. the compressor cover of a turbocharger.

No matter how theoretical it sounds, as a practical matter, that type of system really doesn't do so well in comparison with the others that are commonly used from the last 6 years or so. This style of exhaust scavaging was more popular in 2002-2006.
There are a few reasons why I didn't find exhaust scavaging very useful.

1) you'd have to create/insert an additional one-way baffle in the catch can itself near the drain area. If you don't, as I mentioned you could pull sloshing oil right out of the block. That'll change your oil dipstick level real quick.

2) This type of exhaust scavaging made the cabin area and clothing smell absolutely horrible due to the additional oil fumes. It was 10x worse than any smell coming from an atmospheric pressure dumptube.

3) These really only work in Full-throttle situations to create the proper vacuum. At partial throttle, that vacuum becomes inconsistent (as there may not be enough flow across the scavenge fitting to create vacuum during partial throttle driving) and really defeats the purpose of a catch-can altogether, not to mention a mess if you don't insert the one-way baffle into the can itself.

4) Not that it matters to most, but for those that do run a catalytic converter and / or muffler, the cat-converter will prematurely wear out, and the muffler could possibly cause vacuum to be lower than optimal. So, that system is made for open race header or short -routed exhaust on a turbo application.

That's a lot of work just to go through just for a vacuum source for a catch can.

mrsteezy123

Heres my setup, super cheap and works like a charm, no pcv, and no drainback.
I have drained it once in 6 months and there was barely anything in there.
Its becauase how high up the can is compared to the fittings on the block, oil just drains back via gravity.