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After returning from a tour overseas in Japan and brought almost all of my EK9 back stateside, i think it's time to share with you what the next step of the project is. Bought a 98 DX hatch Dark amethyst pearl in which the engine will go into. the car will be used strictly for road racing (maybe AutoX).
SPECS: UPDATE as of 10/23/2017
GSR Crank
BC light weight Pro rods 451gr; CP 84mm 12.7:1 Pistons
TODA oil pump;
ARP Bolts everywhere;
Supertech bronze valveguides;
Supertech valve seals;
Skunk2 Flat race valves;
TODA valvesprings;
TODA Titanium retainers;
TODA Cam Gears;
TODA B camshafts;
TWM ITB 52mm with TWM Airbox
BOSCH Injectors1000cc;
Gates Racing Timing belt;
Grams 255lph Fuel pump; Cometic 84mm .030 Head gasket;
SPOON flywheel and clutch;
SPOON Thermostat/thermoswitch
Skunk2 Megapower 2.75in exhaust
AEM EMS Version 2
AEM Coil on Plug;
ATI Race Damper;
Tri-Y big tube header (1320);
4P Outlaw CNC head;
Inline PRO Sleeved B16B 84mm (AEBS sleeves)
Engine currently to engine builder to measure clearances. should be on the car very soon. Shooting for reliable 250hp on e85.
Last edited by Rise VTEC; 10-23-2017 at 05:47 AM.
Reason: update
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Re: Stroked B16B-->B19 Road Racing Use
You aren't gonna make 240 with that setup.... Probably not even on race gas... Have you even figured out the compression.... I'm guessing your gonna be around 12.5-13:1. ITBs on a stock head? Why? You would make more power selling the ITBs and getting a good port job and using a manifold. That exhaust is gonna hold back some power as well.
Moving torque around is going to come down to runner length. One of the nice things about ITBs is that you can easily adjust your runner length, and if you have enough money and dyno time you can get the runner length really dialed-in.
Another benefit is that you can put a really big plenum on them without sacrificing throttle response the way you would with a normal manifold. A while back I read an FSAE paper where they were dyno testing plenum volume on a 600cc bike engine and were seeing gains with a plenum volume something like 10 times the engines displacement. This would be absurd in a Civic, but you get the idea. Build as big of an airbox as possible and hook it up to a cold air source, and ITBs are pretty killer.
If youre not going to take advantage of this stuff (it is a lot of work), a good manifold will do just as well as ITBs (much easier).
You aren't gonna make 240 with that setup.... Probably not even on race gas... Have you even figured out the compression.... I'm guessing your gonna be around 12.5-13:1. ITBs on a stock head? Why? You would make more power selling the ITBs and getting a good port job and using a manifold. That exhaust is gonna hold back some power as well.
i think they're pretty achievable...i've seen B18C that kept the same cc's running 240whp...Compression will be around 12,5:1. let's be precise here; it's a CTR head, i understand it's not ported like a 4piston, but it's not a stock B16A head. another reason why i wouldn't want to take it to the machine shop. if that's the case i'm going to outsource a regular b16a2 head and take it to the machine shop. i just came from Japan, tuners there do put ITB's on type R heads...and no i won't sell the itb's. So you mean to tell me that a Good tri-y like SMSP or Hytech will hold back some power....okay...on what theory? please advise me a better header for the setup. i sold my ITR 98 spec because i think it will be to small for the displacement.
the whole purpose of the TODA B and ITB's and the setup IS to make good midrange power. it's still a road track engine. i can easily change the runners and i can definitely buy a good airbox for it.
No 240. Itbs are a waste, especially if you want reliability. I recommend plm for the header, but if you have deep pockets id even go full race, side exit etc.
No 240. Itbs are a waste, especially if you want reliability. I recommend plm for the header, but if you have deep pockets id even go full race, side exit etc.
I'd like to understand why for you itb's are a waste. Bad personal experience?I think if tuned correctly are superior to a ported manifold and better throttle response. The header is going to be a tri-y, smsp would be ideal, but I'm open to copies if manufactured with some sense. I was thinking that the spoon setup will be a little bit restrictive, I'm gonna have to have one fab. A 3in straight from header to rear bumper.
I'd like to understand why for you itb's are a waste. Bad personal experience?I think if tuned correctly are superior to a ported manifold and better throttle response. The header is going to be a tri-y, smsp would be ideal, but I'm open to copies if manufactured with some sense. I was thinking that the spoon setup will be a little bit restrictive, I'm gonna have to have one fab. A 3in straight from header to rear bumper.
Its more of a $ point I'm trying to make. For the cost to aquire and tune them you could have actually bought a 1.8l block, bored and stroked that for a reliable 240 whp, 2.2l N/A frankie. No itb needed. The gains over a good ported manifold are minimal at that.
And remember you need far more than one tune to dials those in. And more depending on sea levels, tempature dips etc.
I definitely recommend a total straight thru 3in exhaust. The tri-y is gonna choke you up top.
I would rather have a sleeved 84x87 ITR crank than stroker anything for road racing.
Sell that stroker kit, get the lightweight BC sportsman rods with upgraded bolts. Sleeve the block and get a GSR or (even better) ITR crank 11.8:1 84mm will be more engine than you think and won't need new bearings twice a season.
Look up the bore vs stroke threads. The most important take-away I ever found was this:
In race rulebooks Bore ALWAYS is limited, stroke not as much.
Its more of a $ point I'm trying to make. For the cost to aquire and tune them you could have actually bought a 1.8l block, bored and stroked that for a reliable 240 whp, 2.2l N/A frankie. No itb needed. The gains over a good ported manifold are minimal at that.
And remember you need far more than one tune to dials those in. And more depending on sea levels, tempature dips etc.
I definitely recommend a total straight thru 3in exhaust. The tri-y is gonna choke you up top.
i see your point. the parts listed are already in my possession, unless specifically listed as looking to buy, the b16b has the same block as the b18c. tuning won't be a problem, as well as the dyno time. yes, definitely thinking about selling the spoon for a straight one, but i don't understand your point about the tri-y. smsp, six sigma racing and hytech have dyno and race proven gains compared to a conventional 4-1 or a 4-2-1.
I would rather have a sleeved 84x87 ITR crank than stroker anything for road racing.
Sell that stroker kit, get the lightweight BC sportsman rods with upgraded bolts. Sleeve the block and get a GSR or (even better) ITR crank 11.8:1 84mm will be more engine than you think and won't need new bearings twice a season.
Look up the bore vs stroke threads. The most important take-away I ever found was this:
In race rulebooks Bore ALWAYS is limited, stroke not as much.
i'd rather have a 84x87.2 as well, but this is what i have so far in my garage. i doubt people will buy a brand new BC stroker kit that retails over $2200. If so i will use that money for sleeving and head work, but for now i gotta work with what i have.
I would rather have a sleeved 84x87 ITR crank than stroker anything for road racing.
Sell that stroker kit, get the lightweight BC sportsman rods with upgraded bolts. Sleeve the block and get a GSR or (even better) ITR crank 11.8:1 84mm will be more engine than you think and won't need new bearings twice a season.
Look up the bore vs stroke threads. The most important take-away I ever found was this:
In race rulebooks Bore ALWAYS is limited, stroke not as much.
well...after few comments i've outsourced a micropolished ITR crank a ported ITR head with oversize intake valves and flat exhaust valves.
i really don't want to sleeve, so the only option is to go 82mm bore. maybe with some toda pistons. that will put me at 82x87 12.6:1 compression with a stock headgasket. please let me know what you guys think.
Save the money on COP ignition benefits are minimal on an NA. Scrimp for a few more months and sleeve to 84, you will not regret it. The investment in time and money is absolutely worth it. A high revving circuit engine will only benefit from the rigidity afforded by the sleeves as well, smoother operation and increased part life. Plus the best part moah powahh!
Save the money on COP ignition benefits are minimal on an NA. Scrimp for a few more months and sleeve to 84, you will not regret it. The investment in time and money is absolutely worth it. A high revving circuit engine will only benefit from the rigidity afforded by the sleeves as well, smoother operation and increased part life. Plus the best part moah powahh!
Already have the aem cop on coils. No need to scrimp..lol...I'm thinking about having the head ported and machined by 4piston. Still not sold on the sleeves. Might as well I'll keep the 92mm crank and have cp custom make some 84,5mm pistons to match the crank and rods. We'll see...
All the 4piston heads I have seen on here have only continued to raise the bar, quality work from guys who are willing to share what they do with all of us.
Please don't stroke that block. If you go through 4p for your head, spend some time on the phone with them and get their feedback on how to build a circuit engine.
Road racing is more about reliability and longevity than torque and horsepower.
Toda replica headers always seem to make great power.
Kinsler would be the guys to ask about anything ITB related.
As for the stroker kit, I say go for it. I don't believe I've seen a straight 92 x 81 B series before. Should probably make about the same as a b20v IMO.
ITBs arent a waste its just people dont know what sizing to use on their motors so they pick the wrong size and a manifold outperforms it. i know a guy who made 258 on 84mm with YCP pistons, M24xx cams and OBX ITBs(48mm). supposedly "too small" to make good power but his power jumped up by 30hp or so.
right. also, from my experience and from how it looks, 48mm itbs works well with big duration cams. the more velocity you have the more duration youre able to use. he also didnt have tons of compression neither as the YCP piston has about a 3.4cc dome.
i think the ITB the OP has could work for what he has. he already has it, just put it together and see what it does.
Bought the ITR crank and The BC light weight rods (461grams!). Waiting on 84mm CP pistons.
i will definitely send the head to 4Piston for some work beginning of June, and for those of you who wondered if a 92 stroke will be good for Road racing applications this is the answer that i got from the guys at 4piston:
"Actually the 92 stroke will work perfectly fine for road racing. It will be limited quite a bit if you run a stock head, but that will be true for any stroke. Either way you go I would run the 84 bore."
with that being said, i might just order some CP custom 84mm bore pistons to match the stroker. still debating. will see... as usual your opinions are welcome!
they are really helpful and customer oriented; i cannot wait to send my head to them.
The stroker is gone, so what i have now is the ITR crank, the BC sportsman rods (451grams! ) and i also bought the airbox for my ITBs. Now as far as pistons goes, CP makes 2 different types of pistons that i'd like to use. the first one is P/N SC7120 which is a 84mm 12,5:1 and the other one is P/N SC7120X 84mm which will yeld 12,7:1 compression.
With the head being worked by 4P, TODA B's and ITB's (running on 93octane) should i go with the SC7120 or the SC7120X?
looks good. should be a solid setup with good power for sure.
Those rods look nice and seem to be a great value. The only steel rod I know of thats lighter is a Carillo Pro A beam but they are almost twice as much for approx 40 grams weight savings a rod
05-02-2016, 12:22 PM
Stroked B16B-->B19 Road Racing Use
) and i also bought the airbox for my ITBs. Now as far as pistons goes, CP makes 2 different types of pistons that i'd like to use. the first one is P/N SC7120 which is a 84mm 12,5:1 and the other one is P/N SC7120X 84mm which will yeld 12,7:1 compression. 
