AllMtrRex

Simple. The shop owner left his car outside without telling the owner of the car. It's his fault, not the owner of the car. How can it not be? If I was baby sitting your kid, and I left he/she outside without an eye on them and they get abducted, are you going to say it's my fault? Without a doubt.

The town had nothing to do with the shop owner leaving this guy's car outside for thieves to steal.

I know you guys are looking out for your friend, but I don't care if this was John Force who left the damn car outside. It's his negligence that ultimately cost this guy his car/build. It isn't reasonable for him to pay out of pocket for the entire deal but MAN UP and MAKE IT RIGHT or go to court and they will make it right. Simple.

mozzandherb

iTrader: (3)

The owner of the shop made a mistake, that is for sure by leaving it outside. And to the owner of the car, I understand why you did not have insurance on your car as you were not driving it. As for the shop not having insurance? Well that's a little dicey, but things like this happen (it's happened to me). But I agree that this will not be solved by posting on here or on other forums, I believe it is a matter of following the legal route and taking it to court, it seems like this is your only option.

AllMtrRex

I agree with everyone here, social media is not the answer to getting your car back. Maybe you needed some guidance on what steps to take next. You know those now....

1992Si

Wow, some story here. Sorry to hear what has happened.

I would think the shop would stand behind you and help you out in any way for there negligence.

Let's be real here guy's. We know of all the car thief's around here, I've lived here most of my 60 years. If you think the thieves don't know where all the cars worth stealing are...you are greatly mistaken.

Anybody that leaves that type of car outside over night is asking to get it stolen.

I have a great network of local shops. I have never onced asked if they had insureance or were they a legal shop.

Yes, I've had a built civic stolen.

Good luck with your civil suit.

0xenocron

Show me the agreement in writing where the customer was told his car would ALWAYS be kept inside over night. This fact is hearsay, and one can believe what they want to, but in a court of law there needs to be proof. If I was bringing my car to a shop, that I didn't carry any insurance on, I would sure as anything make sure there was SOME coverage there. I wouldn't say to myself "looks legit, probably has insurance if something bad were to happen in any case." CERTAINLY if I left my kid somewhere (I leave two of them in day care each day) I am going to have ROCK SOLID agreements in place. It's apparent to me that TOO MANY people dont take these steps, and I am glad you are telling people about this, but dont just tell them about one shop, tell them about ALL SHOPS. The simple fast you are pointing out the name in each post tells me you just want VINDICATION.

So change this up a little, if the car was burned to the ground in a fire, and there was no insurance, would the shop owner be liable for a fire too if it was accidental? What if there was an act of nature, a tornado...and the roof was taken off the building and the car swept away to the next town over, would the business owner be LIABLE?

The town has a lot to do with it and so does the building owner. In most cases the owner of the building is required by law to carry certain coverages on a building, especially if there is a loan on the building. I dont know the local statutes here, so I cant comment on what the building owner may or may not be responsible for. He/she certainly ALLOWED an individual to operate against local code, and if these cars were as easy to see from the street as it may seem here, then why didnt the local inspector pop in and take a look? I know my local fire inspector pops in each year, walks through and makes sure everything is on the up and up, and sometimes makes a surprise visit. Why is no one claiming negligence here?

I'm not looking out for my friend, its a sucky situation and I gave him my two cents...if I were in his shoes I probably would have handled it a touch differently but NO ONE KNOWS what was discussed between these two individuals except for them, and nothing is in writing so now the only people who are going to win will be the lawyers which IMHO is retarded.

Now because Kyle is my friend how about this...I'll give you $1000 cash MYSELF to help your "pain and suffering" from the loss of your vehicle. You release Kyle from any and all liability, you take down EVERY negative forum post, Instagram account/post, every Facebook, Craigslist..etc post you have made and move on with your life in the best way possible. This way you dont have to retain a lawyer which in my guesstimation is going to net you next to nothing except more bills and you dont put my friend through a long winding legal battle because of a mistake you believe he made. (agree to disagree)

I often look for worthy causes to donate my time, my money and my energy to in the racing/automotive world and to keep an honest, hard working individual in the game like Kyle so that people that dont know better, get good work, information, advice and longevity instead of actually getting scammed, sold parts they dont need and advice they cant really use because he would be forced to deal with this.

I'm glad I have a legal, tax paying, insured business operating in a legit location and I dont have to worry about this stuff. But I know how hard it is, to be fully compliant and how EXPENSIVE it is to continue running a business and even more so when really just getting started. So yes, bring your work to fully legitimate businesses, but then understand WHY your bill is probably a bit higher than the next backyard mechanic who ISNT legit, and then ask yourself what ASSUMPTIONS you are making when you drop of a car off for service for a variety of reasons.

1992Si

xenocron, You do bring up a good point about why some shops cost are higher than what this typical/type customer is wanting to pay, granted I don't know the cars owner. But that's a different topic. I give you bussiness owner's lots of credit. You have to deal with the public.

I also think the car owner may be wrongfully so, as most normal people would assume, the shop owner is going to take care of your property when you entrust him with it. This was not just any old car.

Even when I took my old 86' F150 rust bucket to a local repair shop the owner said he would lock it in the fenced area if I wasn't going to come pick it up that night. The shop is on a busy road. I leave the key's in it when I park it out in the back yard.

The shop should have taken better care of the customers property.

I should drive by KJ and see where the place is.

AllMtrRex

Some valid points.

However, I drop my kid off a daycare everyday too. I didn't have to ask the daycare owner if there was a possibility of an employee leaving my kid outside unattended at any point. That's common sense. The same common sense shop owners should have when parking a customer's build outside for the night. Not quite apples to apples but close enough.

0xenocron

Daycare is different, there are LAWS about this stuff. There are fine print legal documents you have to sign as a parent and there are LEGAL OBLIGATIONS a daycare center must CONSTANTLY abide by and be inspected with. You can research these facilities, you can call the state facilities that regulate daycare centers, you can ask for inspection reports and other reports about incidents, etc...you can KNOW that workers of that facility are not convicted felons or sex offenders because of regulations. There is no resume to assume anything...this is why we have governments and laws.

On the other hand I'm a tuner (mechanic, fabricator, wiring specialist, engine builder, etc), did I have to go to college to become one? Is there a college degree at MIT, Cal Tech, RIT, RPI that a tuner must take in order to become certified in order to practice tuning like a lawyer needs to practice law or a doctor medicine? Is there a test I had to take to become certified? Do I constantly have to improve my abillities, take classes, stay relevant in order to continue to be licensed? If your car blows up on my dyno, am I legally responsible?

No...this is an aftermarket, automotive hobbyist, do-it-yourself type of game and there are no LAWS. There is no law that says a shop like KJ's has to be a legal LLC, S Corp or register with the Connecticut DMV. He isnt passing cars for state inspection, he isnt doing work for military or government contracts, this is a friggen PASSION for most of us. And this is why SO MANY GOOD PEOPLE LEAVE this bull$hit is over situations like this. He can be an individual, doing service work, taking in payment for services and as long as he claims income, pays his taxes...he is legal by the law of the land. There is NO LAW that says he must carry insurance...should he, yes. Why he didnt, I dont know...but customers ASSUME things they shouldnt, and that is what happened here. The customer ASSUMED something, and he assumed incorrectly and is now trying to take his pain out on the only person he can...

tepid1

Nowhere in this thread of blaming others do I see you take any ownership on your actions, or should I say lack thereof....

You chose to build a car that has been on the top 10 most stolen cars list up till 2012. You did nothing to really prevent this. I understand that you had a discussion and an agreement with KJ and he had a lapse in judgement or memory. Do you really think that will hold in court, if it even goes that far? AND if it goes that far, you're legal fees will pile up to more than what your pile of stolen stuff amounts to.

So, again, you took the approach to go this route when you felt stuck.... if you get no help from him then this is what you deserve.

Apologies for saying fucktard. Not directed to you specifically, but people in general that do things like this.

VERY valid points here.

hardcore97

a vocal agreement is a legal contract in some states, but that would be a matter of a judge believing that those words were spoken. bad deal for sure, i would be pissed to if the shop told me to get lost without offering to help in any way.

Death_to_Thieves

Xenocron,

With all due respect, I appreciate your feedback but, since you two are such "besties", and you are also apparently his bodyguard, (which is pretty weird and creepy btw), I have to take everything you say with a grain of salt. Also, you weren't there, so I'm sorry, but you don't know ****. HE SAID MY CAR WAS KEPT INSIDE. Let me say it again, HE SAID MY CAR WAS KEPT INSIDE. Regardless of whats in writing, laws, day cares and whatever else you're babbling about to stick up for your friend, A MAN SHOULD KEEP HIS WORD. I'll say that again too, A. MAN. SHOULD. KEEP. HIS. *******. WORD. Furthermore, I don't need to prove anything to you, nor do I care to. Thank you.


You are correct Tepid1, the Integra is a hot item for thieves, and may be one of the top 10 stolen cars, yet Kyle, thought nothing of leaving a customers highly modified Integra outside overnight, in an open lot, facing the street with no bumper, showing off a huge intercooler, manifold, turbo and wastegates in plain view for everyone to see...

Also, I didn't feel stuck about anything. Like I said, in my very first post, I have accepted the car and parts are gone. This thread was not an attempt or "approach" to get any "help from him", so please, stop referring to it in that manner. This thread is to inform people, which I have the right to do, about my experience with him and his shop. I am able to inform people that his "lapse in judgement or memory" helped to cause a customer to lose an entire build. I can also inform people that his response was to basically tell the customer that he is SOL.

On the fucktard comment, it's all good...take care

Death_to_Thieves

Of course you would be. So would anyone else in my position. I've gotten an enormous amount of support from 99.9% of people who have heard this story. Xenocron and Tepid1 are entitled to their opinions, but like I said, they are friends with the shop owner. Therefore I think it's natural to try and defend a friend. It's all good, I don't take any of it personal. No hard feelings over here.

Death_to_Thieves

Thank you sir.

Death_to_Thieves

Thank you AllMtrRex and mozzandherb.

tepid1

I don't know if I would even consider him a friend. We did business, it was a smooth transaction and I would leave it at that. His work is top notch and that's why people use him. I also believe he is a certified Honda Master Mechanic, but I could be wrong. All the stars lined up for me and numerous others.

hardcore97, CT is not a state that views a verbal agreement as a law binding contract. We're not that fucked up of a state...... yet.

0xenocron

First and foremost, I am NOT defending KJ or his actions...quote a post of mine that I havent edited (captain Ninja edit) and show me where I am defending him personally?

I am defending BUSINESS OWNERS of this passion, that have to deal with false accusations, lies, customers with unrealistic expectations, unrealistic goals, time frames and ASSumptions. It just so happens to be that I have a GLORIOUS business relationship with KJ, and in that time he has become a friend. That's not why I am posting here. I am posting here to SHOW FACTS and clear up false misconceptions that the Honda Community has about what a shops responsibilities are LEGALLY.

Its painfully obvious that many people either completely dont understand how businesses work, dont care to, or understand it, but try to use misconceptions to further their agenda (in your case to take KJ down because of your lack of self-accusations.

Whats with the Body Guard comment? If that doesnt prove my point and make anyone reading this post understand how ulterior and sinister your motives are here, I dont know what else does. Someone quote a post where I am being a body guard for him? Again, I am a champion of BUSINESS and business owners.

The fact you have created this smear campaign shows your character and hopefully let's others reading this post understand the conversations that most likely went on between you and Kyle in the days following the theft, and why you couldn't reach an agreement.

If anyone thinks that my comments here are to distort the truth, defend actions that took place, discredit you personally than post up. I am here to intelligently discuss what is fact and fiction and I would do that for any business...see my comments on another thread in this section where someone is calling another business a scammer and I commented to ask why he is presenting no facts or backup to his claims.

IF you have spoken to a lawyer, the first thing that he would have told you would be to NEVER post anything publicly, and yet here we are. SO, I can only guess either you have consulted an attorney and he told you that you have no chance, or you haven't actually and again, this is just a smear campaign and realistically you have now given yourself zero chance at a civil suit which in my own personal opinion you had little chance at winning.

Death_to_Thieves

Have a great day.

1992Si

FWIW, here's more from the real world. When we dropped are car off at NRGtech years back, there was never any written paperwork. Like most of the guy's on here we take you for your word. Same when we dropped the chassis off with Kalani Gohara in PA for the first round off cage work, car was for 5 months, no written paperwork. Same with Morgan up at Synapas.

You expect the shop to come through on there word, the same as they expect you to pay when work is complete. Mostly because word of mouth on this forum. We all have something in common and relay on that. May be that's wrong, but you want to trust that person. As specialy when you plan to pay in cash. You may get a receipt afterwords, but even that's not alway's a given.

Death_to_Thieves

Thank you again 1992Si. What can I say, I felt that I did my research on this particular shop and builder. As stated, I met with him face to face, had an hour long discussion about my goals etc, shook hands, and I took the mans word. I guess a mans word is worthless these days without contracts and paperwork. Pretty sad. I guess I'm just too trusting. As Tepid1 stated, I saw the guy is a Master certified Honda tech (which is true), I heard his work was top notch as Tepid1 also confirmed, I saw that he worked with big names and had relationships with knowledgeable, trusted people in the industry such as Xenocron, and he has a shop with bays, lifts, scanned through his social media etc. At no point was I looking to bring my project to a "backyard" mechanic as Xenocron said. I heard his work was top notch and I was prepared to pay top dollar, or whatever the cost was when the project was completed. In fact, my original plan was to bring my car to a VERY well known tuner, builder, fabricator out of state, but because I like to support local businesses, and heard great things about the guy, I took a chance. It is clearly one of the biggest mistakes of my life. A tough lesson learned.

redyute

iTrader: (2)

This there is some bull ****, $1000 seriously, your buddy need to take responsibility for his negligence and for the op posting this all over the internet, its good to know so no other person don't loose their hard owned money over some **** like this.

Death_to_Thieves

Thank you. like I said 99.9% of people see it this way as well. Thanks for the feedback. I didn't even bother acknowledging the disrespectful offer or the fact that he put "pain and suffering" in quotes... like it's unrealistic for someone to feel pain and suffering after losing something that they worked so hard for 2 years to put together. It's cool though. I will keep sharing this story and informing people of my experience with KJBuilt.

nemisish20

BUMP -

Sprockets

iTrader: (6)

This seriously sounds like an inside job. If he was legit, he'd make amends for his carelessness.

Death_to_Thieves

Dude is a scumbag man. Not much more that can be said about it. Karma is a ************ though. Thanks for the feedback.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I know the OP personally he's a good straight up dude

We spoke of this issue and I explained to him it's both parties fault for not enough insurance and for not being diligent about the project being completed etc. OP has taken his share of the blame and accepts that but really it's the shops fault too. They shouldn't have EVER left a high dollar build outside it's that simple. Especially in shithole CT. Hondas are a hot item for the illegal street racers to steal especially a build of this caliber.

It's not going to go anywhere financially and ithink OP understands that. I believe he is allowed to voice his opinion on the matter and maybe more should've been done on the shops part to make it right. I'm sure OP isn't expecting a sfwd car to be handed over to him but something and a proper discussion would've helped the situation