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What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
You've heard it, read it, maybe even said it: ”Honda no longer makes anything I’d be interested in driving”. And sure, they don’t make anything quite like a CRX-SI or a DC2R at the moment. But such cars are gifts and not to be taken for granted. And let’s not forget that even if they made those exact same cars again you might no longer be interested in buying one of them either.
Meantime Honda made/makes an awesome little car that does almost everything very well indeed - The FIT! It's an amazing car. It is So capable, So practical, So useable. The first and second generations - the GD3 and GE8 respectively and especially - are reputed to be Fun to Drive. I can confirm that enthusiastically. I've been driving a GE8 Fit daily for more than a year And using it as a play car AND using it as a Kart transporter and it doesn't score less than 9/10 on very many things. Power? Ok, that’s not 9/10, yeah, it could use 50-100hp more, but so what. It is what it is, and it gets what it is Right. The Sport model in Automatic is Brilliant. Put it in Sport and use the paddle shifters and it works Good! Upshifts are fast enough, and downshifts are smooth and don’t upset the chassis as you’re turning in - you just gotta be sure that your downshifts are made below the point at which the computer ignores them to protect you from over revving or there will be even less response when you tip back in (ok I’m kidding – when you toggle it back to the floor).
The driving characteristics are astoundingly good for how little you pay for the car. It has very good steering feel and feedback, minimal understeer till the ESC starts chattering the outside front wheel, and amazingly benign behavior at the limit when the ESC is off - and that's out of the box (on 195 R888’s).
My first change was to add a Progress rear sway bar which made no perceptible difference in the car at all. I read on forums that it makes for dramatic change but I think those are the comments of people with dramatic imaginations. I then changed the dampers to Bilstein and made up some spring hats so I could run spring rates of my choice. I doubled the front spring rate and tripled the rear and it's still so benign at/beyond the limit that I giggle. Those rates are pretty tolerable for daily driver duty and they seem to be decently compatible with the Bilstein damping on both street and track. They feel like they’ve got pretty linear curves – they could be better on curbs but they’re ok. Between the curves and the rates they are pretty harsh over square edged stuff on the street and the bigger the worse. I also ran eccentric camber bolts – just one per side on the bottom hole. The upright casting was too close to the Bilstein body at the top hole to get any more negative camber with a second eccentric bolt there. IF you play on the track with the stock Fit dampers you should probably try extra hard to keep off the curbs and gators - I'm pretty sure I damaged a shim or otherwise broke the stack in one of my stock struts that way. The way they're making gators these days is almost criminal - they break wheels, rip up the bottom of the car, and damage parts - might as well go back to half-burying tires at the apex as safety is apparently not the concern anymore. Also, the stock dampers top out with pretty good clunks so it's not a rally car as it comes.
There is a quirk in the chassis. The twist axle by nature of its basic design will progressively steer the outside rear “out” under lateral load, so the bushing orientation is splayed to counteract this - lateral load pushing the loaded side of the axle forward/inward along the bushing axis) . Static toe is fixed on the GE8 and mine is toed “in” about ¼ inch total. Under a particular set of conditions, not universal, the rear end can very quickly free up. Not to the point you’d call it snap oversteer, but still attention getting. The conditions are simultaneous braking and turn-in at sub-peak lateral force...braking pulls the loaded side of the axle backward/outward along the bushing axis...partially counteracting the affects of lateral force...partially because of the bias of the splay angle (favoring lateral force). This quick free-up happened to me only in T1 at The Ridge (100mph in in 4th and down to the top of 3rd in an obtuse kink of maybe 30 degrees). Elsewhere in real turns with peak lateral force it tends to push a little - moreso when you overdo braking and turn-in. . I think under the right(?) conditons the outside rear passes thru the inflection point between toe in and toe out. It can only go so far and that is a saving grace of the factory design and bushing hardness spec. If you were to bend the twist axle to get a static toe of zero or slightly out AND replace the bushings with heims, then the car would go from 9 to 10 on the fun scale. The GD3 Does have a bolt on rear hub carrier and so can be modified to adjust toe and camber – therefore the GD3 is in that respect a better starting point.
Going just a little further about twist axles - they are hard to make work for a fun car unless you're willing to sacrifice the compliance needed in a road car. See below for how Opel approached it on their Astra (Germans never stop reminding us of why they lost the war) Frequently you'll see twist axles fitted with a straight strut/brace tying the two trailing sections of the twist axle together - the only thing this does is reduce deflection in the loaded side trailing arm (ie reducing a dynamic toe out component) - I don't see quite how that is an actual performance accessory but I know that useless parts in many cases sell better than useful ones, the most important things being the ease with which they bolt on and their visibility to the ignorati.
The other thing you have to deal with is the tire pressure sensors. On the GE8 you can’t turn off the ESC if the ECU doesn’t see the TPMS sensors. So you need to buy another set of sensors for your track wheels AND you need to buy an ATEC Quickset and an ATEC VT30. Disclaimer: I don’t know you – maybe You shouldn’t turn off Your ESC. I’ve done laps as an instructor where hardly a corner went by that the students ESC wasn’t working hard and I wasn’t glad for it. Again the GD3 is probably a better starting point.
Tom Lepper told me that they run the stock sump and no accusump on his H-Production Fit and have had no oil starvation problems on real race rubber, and with that reassurance I didn't worry about it at my lower level of grip on skinny R888’s. On the hottest summer days at the track I had no issues with engine or transmission temperature over 20-minute sessions.
The brakes require upgrading of course - I used Hawk Blue pads on the front and ATE 200 fluid and that has sufficed except for that at the end of a session if you just come in and park it some part of the brake system heat soaks and boils the fluid and to combat that I've had to drive around the paddock for 5-10 minutes to cool it down. Gotta face it - the car wasn't really designed for this kind of use.
With regard to the trailer hitch – I thought the best one for my purposes was Torklift’s. It mounts by sandwiching under the bumper rebar, and it’s got a longitudinal brace that carries forward to the jacking point. The rating is max 200lb tongue weight, but in my experience (admittedly a little beyond that number AND cantilevered a foot) that’s too much to ask of the sheet metal structure. My loaded kart rack eventually ripped the jackpad off the supporting members. I resolved that by running a tie strap from the top of the kart rack mast thru the rear passenger windows.
I can’t say enough good about the Honda Fit. If you don’t have a real need for more car than the Fit then the Fit might be one of the best things automotive you ever do.
Scott, who isn’t going to play with his Fit anymore…its job to help me with my Jonesing is done…just wanted to share what I’d learned…the goodies will be for sale…
Last edited by RR98ITR; 01-08-2017 at 03:31 PM.
Reason: Because while "I'm done with it", I really didn't finish with it, so I still think about it...Fun cars are hard to forget...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
I loved my first Gen Fit, got it the Dec before they launched officially, straight off he trailer. I loved the first Gen's body lines, that's what got me, old school Honda love. I couldn't find a white 5 speed for the life of me, so I went with the silver sport package and paddle shifting. The only thing that car needed was more power (which Honda now gave it) with a K in that thing or even a B16 sir that would have been such an awesome and little family car.
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Yeah the boys were ripping around this past weekend at Gingerman for the Gridlife Special Stage. I may look into purchasing a Fit down the road once I am finally able to get rid of the Mini Cooper in my fleet of cars. Kind of miss the old days of tail out slides like the one Brad posted above!
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
I've driven a GD5 plenty and it's pretty fun on back roads. You can feel that the chassis is very stiff and the steering, though electric, is surprisingly nice. The gear change is very light but also precise. The driving position is off putting however. You sit way too high up. It's not a sports car, but it is a family car that is enjoyable to drive (unlike say a Corolla). If you are tuning and tracking it though, I'd look elsewhere personally.
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by KoRn_vIRuZ
I've driven a GD5 plenty and it's pretty fun on back roads. You can feel that the chassis is very stiff and the steering, though electric, is surprisingly nice. The gear change is very light but also precise. The driving position is off putting however. You sit way too high up. It's not a sports car, but it is a family car that is enjoyable to drive (unlike say a Corolla). If you are tuning and tracking it though, I'd look elsewhere personally.
Agreed. BUT if you were a person whose personality was distorted by a need to humiliate others the Fit could be really good for that too. Put a K24 in it and keep it nice and quiet and Humble Thy Prey Away!
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by Dilbones
needs moar double wishbone
I could choose to look down my nose at the Fit because it has struts in the front, and I could choose to look down my nose at the Fit because it has a twist axle in the rear, and I could choose to look down my nose at the Fit because its hamsters are sorely overworked...but if I did that I'd miss out on how much fun it is despite all of that.
Scott, who this summer at The Ridge chased down and disposed of a double wishbone civic hatchcrap with a B16 with my strut hobbled Fit so it can't be THAT big a deal (as any kraut kar lover will tell you)...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by Josh R.
A Honda Fit (same exact car, actually) won both the SCCA Runoffs B-Spec Championship and Pirelli World Challenge Touring Car B Championship.
A happy tire isn't that particular about how it got there...ditto for the happy driver...
Scott, who can say all this and live it but that doesn't mean it isn't a bit of a struggle and that in weak moments on "bad" days I don't fantasize about driving a Prodrive Ferrari 550 Maranello...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Scott, who this summer at The Ridge chased down and disposed of a double wishbone civic hatchcrap with a B16 with my strut hobbled Fit so it can't be THAT big a deal (as any kraut kar lover will tell you)...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by Black R
What about fit competitors like the fiesta?
Well, I think the Fit would be at a...uh...slight disadvantage against the Fiesta ST... But the base Fiesta is probably comparable. I confess that I didn't really look past the Honda family for a driver in this case and the rear seat design and general spacefullness of the Fit were very attractive to me for my purpose of hauling my kart stuff.
Scott, who didn't plan on playing with the Fit...it was just supposed to be cheap reliable transportation...but it's considerably more than just that
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
I could choose to look down my nose at the Fit because it has struts in the front, and I could choose to look down my nose at the Fit because it has a twist axle in the rear, and I could choose to look down my nose at the Fit because its hamsters are sorely overworked...but if I did that I'd miss out on how much fun it is despite all of that.
I was just trolling, so no worries. I love the Fit too. Def a cool car.
Ever since I got out of my RSX and into an old Civic, I can't go back though.. The bump steer and understeer are annoying.
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Scott, who this summer at The Ridge chased down and disposed of a double wishbone civic hatchcrap with a B16 with my strut hobbled Fit so it can't be THAT big a deal (as any kraut kar lover will tell you)...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by Dilbones
...Cool..
You know what else looks Cool to me? The Honda Beat. They keep popping up on eBay and elsewhere and really tempting me...but they're RHD only and my left hand assures me that if I do it I'll regret it.
Scott, who knows there are other cars out there...but they aren't Honda's...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
I haven't been here in a while but I always love your posts, I am on my second Fit GD3 and still loving it I had a HKS turbo charger on it and it was blast to drive but it blew so next is a K20 or K24 Hey quick question what suspension set up do you recommend? I want to do the Bilstein but they don't make it for the first generation I bet I can configure something?
Charles, who has a track prep CRX in the garage but the Honda Fit is to fun to drive and lot more spacious and probably safer as I am 250 lbs and 6'1"
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Hey Charles...I have no idea who makes anything useful for the GD3. I've been warned off of most of the cheap aftermarket dampers by well informed friends, and the dyno charts I've seen for "popular" dampers for these type cars are typically linear with values close to stock - so why bother. This was true as well for the Bilstein's I bought, but what I Did get was high quality manufacture and the threaded body that I needed. It was always going to be luck on whether they worked with the spring rates I was guessing I needed. If you can swing the price, call MCS (Motion Control Suspension) and ask them if they can build a pair of struts for your application. OR remind yourself, as a good friend reminded me, of just what the Fit is for and focus your irrational spending impulses on the CRX in your garage. BUT if you think that's crazy talk, take some measurements of your GD3 struts and lets see where they differ from GE8 and by how much.
Scott, who always wants good advice...but so rarely takes it...
Re: What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Originally Posted by RR98ITR
Hey Charles...I have no idea who makes anything useful for the GD3. I've been warned off of most of the cheap aftermarket dampers by well informed friends, and the dyno charts I've seen for "popular" dampers for these type cars are typically linear with values close to stock - so why bother. This was true as well for the Bilstein's I bought, but what I Did get was high quality manufacture and the threaded body that I needed. It was always going to be luck on whether they worked with the spring rates I was guessing I needed. If you can swing the price, call MCS (Motion Control Suspension) and ask them if they can build a pair of struts for your application. OR remind yourself, as a good friend reminded me, of just what the Fit is for and focus your irrational spending impulses on the CRX in your garage. BUT if you think that's crazy talk, take some measurements of your GD3 struts and lets see where they differ from GE8 and by how much.
Scott, who always wants good advice...but so rarely takes it...
Maybe he can calle ANZE too and see if they'll build a setup with some Koni DA Races, JRZ, or MCS. Lots of Honda Challenge guys use ANZE.
Possibly Ground Control can work with you on revalving a set of Konis for stiffer springs?
Run some R Comps and good suspension and stop worrying about geometry?
10-18-2016, 11:46 AM
What? They don’t make great Hondas any more?…What about the Fit?
Frequently you'll see twist axles fitted with a straight strut/brace tying the two trailing sections of the twist axle together - the only thing this does is reduce deflection in the loaded side trailing arm (ie reducing a dynamic toe out component) - I don't see quite how that is an actual performance accessory but I know that useless parts in many cases sell better than useful ones, the most important things being the ease with which they bolt on and their visibility to the ignorati. 
