Philbert

i'm trying to get some sense of the cost of modifications i'm thinking about for a move to DSP next season. is there any significant labor savings having flywheel and clutch replaced at the same time as the LSD, or would doing them at a later date not have too much labor cost penalty? about how many billed hours am i looking at for just the LSD?

i believe the quaife will offer more performance advantage than the clutch/flywheel, but if it makes sense to do them all together...

thanks,
phil

Crack Monkey

Not sure of the total labor, but having them done at once should save a few hours. If you want to save some $$$, pull the tranny yourself - shops usually charge an arm and a leg to do it.

Holden

For a Quaiffe LSD + Clutch job, I was quoted 12 hours labor at $50/hour from one transmission shop (the other 12 I called laughed at me when I asked if they'd install an LSD). Acura dealer quoted 8 hours at $75/hour.

I went with the Acura dealer but still had to hold the mechanics hand and spent much time on the phone with Quaiffe's support line (Excellent support btw) because the mechanic thought the LSD was the wrong size because the speedo gear wouldn't fit. (It did, after I promised I wouldn't hold him liable if it broke while using a propane torch and hammer to put it on.)

A friend had his installed at a tranny shop for $275, but he pulled the tranny and brought it to the (and later had to reinstall it himself too).

Some tuner shops will do it for $500 or so total, but make sure they know what they're doing.

I got raped for my install. I hope you don't.

JeffS

I would say 6 hours + for the quaife install. The majority of that time is pulling the tranny. If you're installing a quaife, changing the flywheel and clutch adds about 10 minutes (at the most) to the job. If you got the clutch/flywheel changed later, you're probably looking at another 5 hour labor charge.

Then again, it's largely dependent on whether they're looking at an estimate book or basing it on a reasonable time. You may be lucky just to find a shop who wants the work.

[edit] wow... judging from the above post I guess I really undershot my guess. Then again, I couldn't find anyone who wanted to do it for any price.


[Modified by JeffS, 4:33 PM 10/30/2002]

RineRacing

The best price you can get will most likely be from a fellow autocrosser. I was in the exact same situation as you 10 months ago, looking for a good price on a Quaife and install. I met a fellow autocrosser who owned a service shop and he said he would sell me the Quaife at cost if I pay for the labor to install it. I have been going back ever since.

The install took about 6 hours.

tylerdurden

You say that most of the labor is pulling the tranny. If the tranny is already out of the car (or not yet installed, as the case may be), how much time would you think?

JeffS

Depends on who's doing it. An hour to two is reasonable.

It partly depends on whether your tranny is using roller bearings:


or taper bearings (yes, I'm aware this is a VW diff)


With the taper bearings you have to worry about setting preload. This can be time-consuming and also requires that the needed shims be available to the installer. The easiest thing to do is buy new roller bearings and install them with the quaife.

Rough steps

- open tranny
- remove differential
- remove ring gear from diff
- remove speedo gear from diff - involves heating the gear and some patience
- install speedo gear on quaife - again, heating and patience
---- if you break the speedo gear, the only way to get a new one is off another stock diff. It's not sold seperately
- install ring gear on quaife
- install bearings on quaife (I'd recommend new ones)
- install differential
- reassemble the case

For anyone who's opened a tranny before, the assembly is cake. The speedo gear is the time consumer. Only a person who's installed an aftermarket lsd before will have ever removed or installed one of these. A honda/acura tech will have had no reason to ever do it.


[Modified by JeffS, 5:10 PM 10/30/2002]

92sleepR

The newer style roller bearings can be installed in the older transmission cases which is what I would strongly recommend. I would also recommend that you do the work yourself. I did mine with the help of the trusty Helms manual and it wasn't too difficult after I got over the 'Oh ****, What Have I done!" effect of opening up the transmission case for the first time. I took the diff to a shop to have the speedo gear and new bearings pressed on.

I called several shops in my area and most wouldn't even touch it. Those that said they would do it quoted me absolutely ridiculous prices like $1000 and up. I told them what they could do with their labor rates and then spent a few evenings studying the transmission section in the Helms.

Mike

chad

i charged 300 for installing the following
flywheel
clutch
lsd
final drive....

i think i got raped.....but.....it is money in the pocket
yes i do possess the skills to do the job....therefore i should make the money for having the knowhow and also the 15000 in tools to do the job in under 4 hours!!!

yes i said 4 hours
pulled tranny too!!!


i did it in 3 hours and 21 minutes in my car but i didn't have all the crap that this car did...

Vracer111

I have a question...would not installing the speedometer gear have any affect on the integrity of the differential? If not, then I plan on not worring about installing it for the MOD class racecar project whenever it's time to work on the tranny (plan on using a GSR tranny)....

JeffS

Chad, $300 is cheap. If anyone can find someone to do it for that (especially someone's who's done it before) you should jump on it.

Vracer111: not installing the speedo gear won't result in anything but your speedometer not working.

Austin

I'm pretty lucky that Jeff Sloan isn't an absurdly lone drive from me...$350 to remove the tranny and install the Diff, $50 more if you install a final drive at the same time... http://www.hybridautomotive.com/service/

Austin - who along with Chris, and Bob#455 had Jeff install a JDM FD in his tranny

SiRex91

Garage Kwai only charged me $300 for an lsd install on my old civic hatchback. They did a great job. Put over 200k miles on that tranny.

Philbert

have you had other work done at Kwai as well?

Steve91

I pulled the tranny myself and took it to my trans guy. He installed a new syncro and bearing kit, installed the Quaife, and shimmed everything. Total was $140 for a labor and $10 for shims. It took him about 3 hours

Raz1983

I looked up ALLDATA and came up with this

REPLACE (Transmission)
Complete Assembly Without Transfer of Parts 2.9h
Complete Assembly With Transfer of Parts 3.2h

REPLACE (Flywheel)
2.7h

seems different from what everyone else has, but thats what i got out of ALLDATA

Vitt1

Steve91, where in So Cal is your trans guy located?

I may get a flywheel soon and might consider a ITR LSD. I'm also debating on whether or not to change the clutch, which has ~40K on it but hasn't seen a lot of hard driving.

Kamin

if you have it installed
pull the transmission yourself!!!
it will save 90% of the labor charges
and pulling a transmission is cake, you can drop one in 2 hours with hand tools (meaning no air tools)

Steve91

Vitt1,

He's in Canoga Park. Email me if you want the details.

kb58

There's a guy in San Diego who does the install for $150 if you give him the tranny. Mission Gorge Automotive, ask for Jay. 619 562 2777. He said that it's common for some customers to ship him the tranny.

I have no connection with him other than he installed mine.

Kakkoii Integra

i did mine myself... took a day to get the tranny out, apart, and put the diff in, then ordered the diff shims, got them two days later, and put everything back in 3/4ths of a day. the hardest part, by FAR, is getting the tranny out of the car. well, especially if you don't have an engine hoist or tranny jack like me. but anyway, if you can get the tranny out yourself, you can put the diff in yourself! it's not hard! DIY!!!

if you decide to take on the project, and have specific questions, email me!

jeff

SiRex91

I've been going to kwai since 2000. They did all the work on my old turbo civic, were always very honest with me, and always gave me great deals. Benson is a great guy and I would recommend that shop to anyone who is not a noob at imports. They are really the only shop I trust. Both me and my best friend are having them do our motor swaps in December. If you go to Kwai, tell Benson Andrew told you about the shop, he'll know who you're talking about.