thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster
 

link for info:

http://www.jsracing.co.jp/_bodymain_e171.html

http://gallery.underclockers.net/alb...-seats/j_s.jpg


cross-post from ef forum...
other thread found here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1222108

thoughts? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emthdown.gif ???


Modified by rsca_crx at 4:42 PM 4/23/2005


Modified by rsca_crx at 4:43 PM 4/23/2005


Modified by rsca_crx at 4:43 PM 4/23/2005

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (rsca_crx)
 

It might be fine for a ricer on the street, but I've been told that when you put bending moment into the lower ball joint boss on the upright they tend to break - which isn't good.

Scott, who likes it but for that one small thing...course I don't know exactly how much it raises the front roll center and if it's practically significant and beneficial...but I "like it"...I also like parts that are shiny or satin black, though not as much if they can't be seen thru a spinning wheel, but at least I'd know I had those trick goodies and then it'd be like I had "another" speed sekrit...so I guess I like them even more for that though also a little less too because I'd be missing out on having people think I was really cool for having such trick parts on my kaa...joo just kant win I gess. <goes to have other thoughts>

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (RR98ITR)
 

just when you thought that they had run out of things for you to spend money on.....

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (stormy)
 

I don't want to even think about the loads that those items would see with race rubber and "real" spring rates...

Christian, who also likes trick parts but only when they stand a good chance of not breaking https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (Xian)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't want to even think about the loads that those items would see with race rubber and "real" spring rates...

Christian, who also likes trick parts but only when they stand a good chance of not breaking https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

J's racing is a bunch of super track whores who get perverse pleasure from having some of the fastest N/A RR honda's in japan - they are not in the business of releasing an inferior or faulty product

so why don't people - for once - either comment on personal experience or not at all.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (stormy)
 

You first.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (stormy)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stormy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

J's racing is a bunch of super track whores who get perverse pleasure from having some of the fastest N/A RR honda's in japan - they are not in the business of releasing an inferior or faulty product

so why don't people - for once - either comment on personal experience or not at all.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the stance i'm trying to take on the subject (hence the post seeking input), but i'm still a bit skeptical of a product that is fairly universal and is obviously putting a lot of stress into a member that wasnt designed for that type (direction) or ammount of stress.

the idea seems quite sound, and i'm interested, so i'm thinking that i might try them out on the autox car, where a failure wont be quite as catastrophic. it needs ball joints anyway. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif

edit: damn. i just agrees with stormy. flame away. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (rsca_crx)
 

And of course theres that silly rulebook thingy thats always getting in the way.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (Catch 22)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And of course theres that silly rulebook thingy thats always getting in the way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The primary group of people here that could actually run these legally would be Street Mod autocrossers.

Interesting idea. Wouldn't this give you less dynamic negative camber though?

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (turbohappy)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...course I don't know exactly how much it raises the front roll center and if it's practically significant and beneficial...but I "like it"...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looks like it would raise it a lot to me. I like the concept of it too. When somebody has tried it out and not broken anything, let us know.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (descartesfool)
 

Count on A&J Racing to give a review in the near future...

They just put it on one of the "shop" cars.....

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (RagingAngel)
 

So here's the deal - raising the front roll center is going to increase the front roll stiffness. So are they going to reduce front bar or spring then? Or - and isn't it always the same story - increase the rear bar or spring rate? The front of a DC2 style chassis isn't blessed with lots of room for the front tires, so you'd trade RC for front bar. And you'd get just a little bit of help with the camber curve - but not enough to get excited about.

Scott, who realizes that if you were excited about these because they (if they do) kept the front RC above ground that'd be another matter...and I don't think anybody around here is going to be settling that one any time soon...

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (RR98ITR)
 

hmm, just a side note. after adding this product you'll have to raise your suspension abit to compensate for adding more distance from the lower control arm to the frame.

so it gives you:
-less roll
-more suspension travel
-and i guess a more agressive camber curve as suspension stroke changes.
-less wear on ball joints, sinces its not at a such extreme angle.
-increased corning speed, because of less roll, the suspension geometry relative to the body remains more constant. and IM GUESSING the more agressive camber curve balances with the postive change in camber in cornering.

the only bad thing i can see is
- questionable strenth of member.
- cost
- time

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (RR98ITR)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So here's the deal - raising the front roll center is going to increase the front roll stiffness. ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Perhaps when I finish playing with my engine and am not feeling too lazy I will get to enter the entire ITR chassis I measured last year with my aluminum I-beam jig after completely stripping off entire suspension into my SusProg3D software, and see just what such little changes might do. Don't hold your breath since as I type this I should really be in the garage working! Nothing useful ever seems to happen to my car while I am here.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (descartesfool)
 

The International Journal of RaceCar Engineering needs to do a review on these.

I will wait until someone with deeper pockets trys them out, but the geometry and physics of it all makes sense.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (B16_madman)
 

If your RC isn't below ground, I think it may do more harm than good. The increase in roll stiffness (which you can get with stiffer springs/bars) and minimal camber gain is offset by the fact that the tires produce vertical resultant forces at the chassis. Otherwise you would want your RC to be as high as possible. My LCAs are pretty close to parallel which leads me to believe that the RC is not below ground...not that I'm going to put in much effort to find out.

http://images.honda-tech.com/set1//smile/emcrook.gif

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (GSpeedR)
 

so, rules aside, nobody else is hitting the UCA on the strut tower first? i am, these things will only make the problem worse.

btw, similar parts can be found for mac strut cars. it makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in a mac strut car. daddio fabbed a equivalent peice for his SM neon. he was able to take 300#'s worth of spring rate out of the front of the car and had a camber curve that rivaled that of a DC2. not too shabby...

nate

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (solo-x)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so, rules aside, nobody else is hitting the UCA on the strut tower first? </TD></TR></TABLE>

what you need is some pimpy .rj approved JDM thingamabobs

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (stormy)
 

Looks like an interesting item that might have some potential and would be legal for my F Prod car since it still uses an actual ball joint and not a spherical bearing. I have not done the geometry measurements or any simulation on my very lowered car but this could be a tool if and when I get around to it. At this point this is not what is keeping me off track so I'll keep focussing on the those items.

Are these things being sold anywhere in the US that anyone knows of? Whether I would try them or not, I would be interested to see what a set would cost delivered to the door.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stormy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">J's racing is a bunch of super track whores who get perverse pleasure from having some of the fastest N/A RR honda's in japan - they are not in the business of releasing an inferior or faulty product. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Call me a cynic but I have seen far too many products coming from the old country (or any country for that matter) to put any credence in this. If the item has good theory and execution and fits a need I have at a budget I can get close to then I am interested but I have witnessed far too many items made, marketed and sold by the clueless in hopes or finding someone just a little bit farther down the clueless ladder with some cash. After years of seeing many JDM products with photos of interesting looking flashy cars that I really know little to no specifics about on foreign race tracks, it is easy for people to get tripped up in the language/distance/culture/understanding barriers. Put a cute, tiny Asian girl next to it in a low cut/high cut outfit and a suggestive pose and I'll just have to buy it...give me a break.

I have a firm belief that there are a lot of automotive "performance" products on the market being sold not because you need it but instead simply because someone out there will buy it. (e.g.- about anything with APC on it, etc.). P.T. Barnum had a oft quoted statement about this exact situation..."A fool and his money are soon parted".

If it really works for a need that I have, I'm likely interested but that is a small segment of the list of parts out there.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (CRX Lee)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... Put a cute, tiny Asian girl next to it in a low cut/high cut outfit and a suggestive pose and I'll just have to buy it...give me a break.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the kind of thinking that's gonna hold back Koni's share of market.

Joo kan laff - but I'm just telling you.

Scott, who, being happily married, isn't affected much by sexy marketing...alot of good it's done me though.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (stormy)
 

Who makes that part and where can you get it? That design looks similar to something I've been wanting to build, but a production part.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stormy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what you need is some pimpy .rj approved JDM thingamabobs

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MXk1NDE%3D.jpg</TD></TR></TABLE>

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (ryan12321)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who makes that part and where can you get it? That design looks similar to something I've been wanting to build, but a production part.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

A-Sports....not cheap, and not easy to ajust; it's not really a turnbuckle so you have to disconnect the arm from the tub to adjust it.

http://www.autoadvance-inc.co.jp/orig.html

http://www.autoadvance-inc.co.jp/shop/phot/z6.jpg

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (Shaun K)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A-Sports....not cheap, and not easy to ajust; it's not really a turnbuckle so you have to disconnect the arm from the tub to adjust it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
but it's cheaper than vision's alternative if you have an ef, and it can't slip.

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (CRX Lee)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">....but I have witnessed far too many items made, marketed and sold by the clueless in hopes or finding someone just a little bit farther down the clueless ladder with some cash....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah yes, and another version of that is: A fool and his money are soon separated. How much do these little beauties cost by the way in NA?

Re: thoughts on j's roll-center adjuster (rsca_crx)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsca_crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but it's cheaper than vision's alternative if you have an ef, and it can't slip.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The main point I am looking at is have less of a chance of the ball joint hitting the top of the shock towers which is the main problem. Sorry to get off topic.