Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
#1
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Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Hi all,
I track my AP2 S2000, and enjoy the durability and performance of the Carbotech XP8 pads.
I also use this car on the street quite a bit. The noise and dust is really wearing me out.
My question is for the guys who are in the habit of running one pad on the street, and another on the track. When you swap them, does your daily pad and track pad set each have their own corresponding set of rotors that you swap with, or do you go back and forth between track pads and street pads on the same rotor?
Either way, do you have to re-bed the brakes every time you swap?
I track my AP2 S2000, and enjoy the durability and performance of the Carbotech XP8 pads.
I also use this car on the street quite a bit. The noise and dust is really wearing me out.
My question is for the guys who are in the habit of running one pad on the street, and another on the track. When you swap them, does your daily pad and track pad set each have their own corresponding set of rotors that you swap with, or do you go back and forth between track pads and street pads on the same rotor?
Either way, do you have to re-bed the brakes every time you swap?
#2
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
I use Hawk HP+ on the street and Hawk DTC-60 compound for track (CRX); I bed the brake pads in as per Hawk's instructions, but I do not swap rotors. I haven't had any issues so far.
#3
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
So each time you go back and forth between the two used pads, you re-bed them?
#4
Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Hi all,
I track my AP2 S2000, and enjoy the durability and performance of the Carbotech XP8 pads.
I also use this car on the street quite a bit. The noise and dust is really wearing me out.
My question is for the guys who are in the habit of running one pad on the street, and another on the track. When you swap them, does your daily pad and track pad set each have their own corresponding set of rotors that you swap with, or do you go back and forth between track pads and street pads on the same rotor?
Either way, do you have to re-bed the brakes every time you swap?
I track my AP2 S2000, and enjoy the durability and performance of the Carbotech XP8 pads.
I also use this car on the street quite a bit. The noise and dust is really wearing me out.
My question is for the guys who are in the habit of running one pad on the street, and another on the track. When you swap them, does your daily pad and track pad set each have their own corresponding set of rotors that you swap with, or do you go back and forth between track pads and street pads on the same rotor?
Either way, do you have to re-bed the brakes every time you swap?
i switched between carbotech pads pads for a while when I was tracking my street s2000. I would change rotors whenever I needed new track pads because of the constant cracking/rotor failure. I use cheap rotors. Always have spare fronts with you at the track. When they go....they go suddenly and after cool down.
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
No, with Hawk pads you bed them in once when they are new (you MUST do this as with any type of pad) and then I just swap in and out. Like said, I probably would stay with the same manufacturer of both pad types.
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
I'm also interested in feedback from others here... I've been bedding them in once and just swapping them out as needed. However, after reading up on the bedding process it seems like you'll want to bed some of the new brake pad material onto the rotors. So is OP and I doing this process "wrong"?
#7
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
When my car saw both street and track use I always just swapped out both rotors and pads. I would zip tie the pads to each rotor the way they came off the car. I only changed the fronts since I only run race pads in the front (DTC60)
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#8
Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
If you drive your car to the track, it's a good idea to bring a spare set of rotors with you in case you crack one on track. Even if you tow your car, you should still bring extra rotors so you can keep tracking that day/weekend.
That said, buy an extra set of rotors to swap along with your pads. That way you have an extra set available and can run any combination of track and street pads you want to.
That said, buy an extra set of rotors to swap along with your pads. That way you have an extra set available and can run any combination of track and street pads you want to.
#9
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Dedicated pads and rotors is the only way. Mixing pad compounds on the same rotor is just asking for warping, or uneven deposits, whatever you want to call it.
#10
Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
The engineers at Carbotech and Stoptech think differently. If you can produce information to support your claim I would love to see it.
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Add me to the group that swaps pads AND rotors. I had nothing but trouble when I tried to swap only pads.
From Carbotech's FAQ on bedding...
http://www.ctbrakes.com/faqs.asp#bedding1
From Stoptech's FAQ on bedding. Emphasis mine...
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...res/bed-in-faq
2. Do I have to resurface (turn) the rotors, or get new rotors?
If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads. If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced
If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads. If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced
http://www.ctbrakes.com/faqs.asp#bedding1
From Stoptech's FAQ on bedding. Emphasis mine...
FAQ #4: What precautions must be taken when switching from street pads to track pads?
If you are changing pad compounds, such switching from street pads to track pads, you need to remove all of the material on the rotor and replace it with a fresh transfer layer of material from the new pads. To be honest, rotors do not like to have different compounds used on them, and virtually all rotor and pad manufacturers recommend that you do not swap pad compounds on the same rotors. The reality is, however, that most customers don't have two complete sets of rotors, so here are our recommendation for managing compounds between track and street use. Note that diligent bedding-in is the key.
When switching from street pads to track pads, one needs to make sure that as much of the street compound is removed from the rotor as possible before aggressive track use. The risk here is that any street pad material remaining on the rotor will be subject to deterioration from overheating. This can ultimately cause severe vibrations due to uneven pad deposits (a smearing of the street pad material on the rotor face).
A common method for removing street pad material is to install the track pad prior to driving to the event. Because most track pads operate in an abrasive mode during regular street operation, driving them to the track will wear off any existing brake pad material en route. You will know when the street pad material is gone by the squealing noises coming from your brakes after a short while…
If you are changing pad compounds, such switching from street pads to track pads, you need to remove all of the material on the rotor and replace it with a fresh transfer layer of material from the new pads. To be honest, rotors do not like to have different compounds used on them, and virtually all rotor and pad manufacturers recommend that you do not swap pad compounds on the same rotors. The reality is, however, that most customers don't have two complete sets of rotors, so here are our recommendation for managing compounds between track and street use. Note that diligent bedding-in is the key.
When switching from street pads to track pads, one needs to make sure that as much of the street compound is removed from the rotor as possible before aggressive track use. The risk here is that any street pad material remaining on the rotor will be subject to deterioration from overheating. This can ultimately cause severe vibrations due to uneven pad deposits (a smearing of the street pad material on the rotor face).
A common method for removing street pad material is to install the track pad prior to driving to the event. Because most track pads operate in an abrasive mode during regular street operation, driving them to the track will wear off any existing brake pad material en route. You will know when the street pad material is gone by the squealing noises coming from your brakes after a short while…
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
What pads are you using that make so much noise?
I drive my track car to the track on DTC-60's and I am not even getting noise... I have been using HP+ in the past. Same deal.
I drive my track car to the track on DTC-60's and I am not even getting noise... I have been using HP+ in the past. Same deal.
#13
Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Add me to the group that swaps pads AND rotors. I had nothing but trouble when I tried to swap only pads.
From Carbotech's FAQ on bedding...
Carbotech Performance Brakes: Frequently Asked Questions
From Stoptech's FAQ on bedding. Emphasis mine...
Bed-In FAQ
From Carbotech's FAQ on bedding...
Carbotech Performance Brakes: Frequently Asked Questions
From Stoptech's FAQ on bedding. Emphasis mine...
Bed-In FAQ
you have to be more clear when you say " I had nothing but problems.....". Did you swap between companies? If so you are agreeing with my first post. Between an endurance race car we raced in chumpcar and my s2000 we have 2 cars that over 5 years cumulatively we had street pads and race pads on the same rotors. Carbotech XP10 or 12. Never an issue....as promised from Carbotech. The OP mentioned Carbotech by name so you have to be clearer if you are claiming contrary to Carbotech.
Why do you drive a caged race car to an endurance race you ask:
1. Because you have 2 entries with 1 trailer
2. Because it's Florida and you can 😂
#14
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
hey man, if it worked for you between some two different pads within the same brand, great.
its really universally not a good idea to mix chemistries on the same rotor surface.
i dunno why youre so hard up on that and defensive.
its really universally not a good idea to mix chemistries on the same rotor surface.
i dunno why youre so hard up on that and defensive.
#15
Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Thats it. No hard feelings here.
If the OP wants a great source on the s2000....look on s2ki.com and look up rob robinette who is now a moderator. Here is a link to some solid stuff by him-
https://robrobinette.com/S2000Info.htm
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
It's weird... I run Hawk HT-10's on my M5 to the track and it sounds like a dump truck. I've just put a set of HT-10's on the Integra and it just sounds like I have worn out brakes!
#17
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
Each time, I installed with new rotors, and followed carbotechs advice for bedding in as close as possible. I try to bed them HARD. Really mash the **** out of them, finishing the process with clouds of smoke billowing out of the wheels.
The only set of XP8's that remained noise-free throughout their life was a set that I installed at the track, bed at the track, drove on the track all day, and then drove home. From there, they were silent for months of daily driving and another track event.
Each other set of XP8's I have run have only remained silent for maybe a week after bedding. The only difference I can see is that I went from bedding to daily driving, not bedding to tracking to daily driving.
The dust is a bit absurd too.
When I bought the car, I didn't want to do the track-prep work of installing new brakes every track weekend... but I underestimated how fast the brakes wear out. I am installing new brakes almost every event anyway. I might as well put street-friendly pads back in afterwards.
#18
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
#19
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
When I bought the car, I didn't want to do the track-prep work of installing new brakes every track weekend... but I underestimated how fast the brakes wear out. I am installing new brakes almost every event anyway. I might as well put street-friendly pads back in afterwards.
#20
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
EBC yellow and Hawk HPS were all similar. Except that HPS on the track was scary enough to make poop in my pants. For some reason the S2000 eats pad material like CRAZY.
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
I've been really happy with the DTC60's they handle heat well, the dust isn't corrosive (like the Hawk Blues used to be). I use 'em on the stock 9.5" brakes as well. But like others have said, it's ultimately best to have a matching set of rotors for the pad. The transfer layer is important.
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Re: Swapping pads betweeen street & track... re-bed the brakes?
What do you guys think bedding is? Form wearing to the rotor? Or just offgassing and thermally stabilizing the pads? I think of it as the latter since I don't ever see grooved rotors in practice.
I swap pads in any combination (street to race, race to street, old race to new race) usually without trouble. BUT, sometimes the compound deposits on the rotors don't like each other and you wind up with irregularities, patchy deposits, that cause vibration on application, sometimes severe vibration. So it's not bad practice to use an abrasive to prep the rotor before swapping, either on the car (BE SAFE!) or on a lathe.
Scott, who has always been really big on braking...all of my cars decelerate so much more better than they accelerate...
I swap pads in any combination (street to race, race to street, old race to new race) usually without trouble. BUT, sometimes the compound deposits on the rotors don't like each other and you wind up with irregularities, patchy deposits, that cause vibration on application, sometimes severe vibration. So it's not bad practice to use an abrasive to prep the rotor before swapping, either on the car (BE SAFE!) or on a lathe.
Scott, who has always been really big on braking...all of my cars decelerate so much more better than they accelerate...