tmitbyh

The car is a 1993 Civic CX hatchback and a few days ago I replaced the front rotors, pads, rear shoes and drums, and completely flushed the system. When I got everything back together it was braking better than it had been but the pedal was still softer than I would like. I suspect this to be atributed to the fact the car is just about fifteen years old with 2XX,XXX miles on it and probably still on the original brake lines. Well today I noticed that there is a shudder in the brake pedal at low or high speeds when mild pressure is applied to the brake pedal. If I stop hard there is no shudder and if I rest my foot on the pedal so the pads are going just over the surface of the rotor there is no shudder.

Could this be a result of old worn out brake lines or is something else a possible miss?

chrisw85

Have you replaced the MC any time in those miles? Or are you still on the original? A new (not reman) one can be had for under $100 from Sanyco, a leading hydraulic parts supplier to many Japanese OE makes, beats paying over $100 for a Nissin from Honda.

What kind of pad compound did you go with?

I'd definately replace the old rubber lines after that many miles. And how about the calipers, ever rebuilt them? Or the rear wheel cylinders? I usually always rebuild or replace rear wheel cylinders when doing a shoe replacement/drum replacement.

prkiller

You say a few days ago, you replaced the pads/rotors, rear shoes/drums.

Have you used them hard since then?

tmitbyh

Jeremy,
Nothing but Interstate driving. I did the normal protocol for a standard brake replace me to bed them. I drove at 35mph with slight pressure and then let them cool and did a 35mph to 0mph normal stop.

chrisw85,
The MC looks to have been replaced at some point in the cars life, when... That is hard to say however. I purchased the car a few months back. I probably still have two or three laying around my garage from one of my EXs I could throw on there that I know are still good.

This also is not the track car, I am still debating what pads I am going to put on it for July. I throw question in this forum because I "trust" the opinions of some of the guys in here more than the other sections at times.

chrisw85

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You say a few days ago, you replaced the pads/rotors, rear shoes/drums.

Have you used them hard since then?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinkign about that too. Yeah if the brakes aren't properly bedded, you can have uneven pad-to-rotor film, which can feel like shudder because of uneven pad deposits. If you don't bed in the pads properly, you could also have poor braking/bite.

chrisw85

For a daily driven car, you will be quite impressed with Hawk HPS pads over stock. I ran those for a while, but I wanted more initial bite and so now i have the step-up the HP+; they squeak like mad but I love the braking.

tmitbyh

For the track car it is between another set of Axxis Ultimates or HP+. If/When I can start doing Time Trials I will move to Blue 9012 more than likely.

What can be done to reaccomplish the bedding procedure? I have not had a brake job do this to me in the past so I am slightly unfamiliar if there is a way to reset and start over so to speak.

Aahj

bent hub? or cheap aftermarket rotors/drums?

tmitbyh

They are not Brembo or anything like that but they are not the bottom dollar VatoZone ones either.

Aahj

wheels torqued correctly?

Aahj

when you're driving down the road, gently pull up on the e-brake...do you feel the shudder? If so, the problem is in the rear.

when you're driving down the road, take your left foot and gently touch the brake pedal while traveling at a constant speed...do you feel the shudder in the steering wheel? If so, the problem is in the front.

743power

i had (still have) this same problem after putting on new front pads and rotors. I did a track day with them and nothing happened, so I doubt its a safety concern. Pads dont look glazed or damaged, rotors spin true with no cracks. I attribute it to the crappy rotors, even though I cant explain why they would cause it. I've done alot of brakes and never had it happen until this time.

chrisw85

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743power &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had (still have) this same problem after putting on new front pads and rotors. I did a track day with them and nothing happened, so I doubt its a safety concern. Pads dont look glazed or damaged, rotors spin true with no cracks. I attribute it to the crappy rotors, even though I cant explain why they would cause it. I've done alot of brakes and never had it happen until this time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just redid my brakes a couple weeks ago with HP+ and autozone duralast rotors (#3295 integra rotors, my 94 ex coupe abs has the same as the DC2), and I had shudder in the steering wheel, no pulsing in the brakes. Luckily I had a spare set of duralasts, swapped out my driver's side and it went away. When I looked at the rotor, there was one part of it where it looked thinner than the other parts on that face (the outside face with the hat, but when I look at the rotor horizonitally the face looked flat) , could have been runout of the rotor, but i didn't have a dial indicator to tell. This had never happened to me before with the duralast rotors. I've noticed though, that even rotors that aren't significantly off for each face, the outside face is thinner than the inside face--wouldn't this make the outside face heat up faster than the inside face? To me it would make sense to have both faces the same thickness....unless thats just the nature of cheapie autosone rotors...or if it has something to do with that the inside face sees the pad that gets directly pushed on by the caliper piston.

johnb16a2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tmitbyh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The car is a 1993 Civic CX hatchback and a few days ago I replaced the front rotors, pads, rear shoes and drums, and completely flushed the system. When I got everything back together it was braking better than it had been but the pedal was still softer than I would like. I suspect this to be atributed to the fact the car is just about fifteen years old with 2XX,XXX miles on it and probably still on the original brake lines. Well today I noticed that there is a shudder in the brake pedal at low or high speeds when mild pressure is applied to the brake pedal. If I stop hard there is no shudder and if I rest my foot on the pedal so the pads are going just over the surface of the rotor there is no shudder.

Could this be a result of old worn out brake lines or is something else a possible miss?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm in the middle of almost the exact same problem. Have you resolved your problem?

tmitbyh

I bedded the brakes again and it went away, but it came back real bad in the right rear. I have no idea what it si that is causing it now.

johnb16a2

Sorry to hear your problem came back. Could be the back brake is not adjusted correctly? For my front brakes I suspect the guide pins may be too loose or lacking enough grease based on HT advise and my own observations. I've already replaced the driver side caliper/bracket already and I've just picked up the passenger side. I'll post my findings. GL

nsxtasy

Re-do your bedding procedure. It sounds like you might not be doing it properly. It should consist of a series of mild stops, followed by a series of VERY HARD stops, and then DO NOT TOUCH THE BRAKES ALL THE WAY HOME, and let them sit overnight. It's described in more detail here:

Pad and Rotor Bed-In Theory, Definitions and Procedures

You'll also find these to be of interest:

The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System

Removal of Uneven Pad Deposits From Rotors Using Aggressive Friction Compounds

johnb16a2

Well tmitbyh, I put the passenger caliper is in along with new slide pins and plenty of grease. And??? The shudder is much less but not completely gone. I'm going to try the bedding process again and drive it for a week or so and see if it gets better. I did try pulling the parking brake handle and I think I felt a familiar shudder. So I'll look at the back brakes next. Stay tuned....

tmitbyh

I worked with mine a little more and the one of the pins that holds the shoes in place broke. Now I have to find another one as I think that is making the rather aggressive shake that is going on now.

Tyson

have you checked if theres any play in your steering, tie rods or balljoints? when you have play in your steering, it becomes a chicken and the egg situation with warped rotors.

a warped rotor will induce movement in the suspension. but excessive play in your suspension will cause the car to vibrate, commonly described as "violent" or "horrible shaking". a warped rotor alone will not cause this. if the steering and suspension is tight, as in a new vehicle, all that will be noticable is a mild pulsing at the steering wheel. fixing the rotor alone will only remedy the symptom temporarily. as the problem is the play in your steering and the reason why your rotors warp more easily. so fix the problem, by fixing the play in your suspension/steering.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tmitbyh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The car is a 1993 Civic CX hatchback </TD></TR></TABLE>

doe the CX have power steering?

if its manual, i would check out the rack end bushing for sure.

tom91ita

i am with aj on this one.

i have a right rear trailing arm bushing that is going bad and it is just as he says. pull on the e-brake and it shudders badly.

step on the brake at 70mph and it nearly violent from the rear. new ones just arrived and should be fixing this weekend.

look over everything in the back, its not always the front.

johnb16a2

tmitbyh,

Get your rotors and drums checked at a brake shop. I pulled on my parking brake lever while driving and felt the shudder. I had my drums checked/machined and the problem seems to have been solved! The car stops VERY smoothly now! Although my drums were new in the box I bought them late last year and didn't get a chance to install them till recently so I had no choice but to have them machined. I suppose you have the option to exhange any defective components. GL

Cheers,
John

electron_si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tmitbyh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the track car it is between another set of Axxis Ultimates or HP+. If/When I can start doing Time Trials I will move to Blue 9012 more than likely.

What can be done to reaccomplish the bedding procedure? I have not had a brake job do this to me in the past so I am slightly unfamiliar if there is a way to reset and start over so to speak. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i switched from the hp+ to axxis ult. HORRIBLE DECISION. the axxis ult have very little initial bite and i feel like im using an OEM pad now. im ordering hawks again next week

chrisw85

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by electron_si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i switched from the hp+ to axxis ult. HORRIBLE DECISION. the axxis ult have very little initial bite and i feel like im using an OEM pad now. im ordering hawks again next week</TD></TR></TABLE>

i love the squeaks. i love the bite. i love hp+.