descartesfool

Interesting new twist on a green race car. Not exactly backyard tuning though.

http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/mtrsp/9089

Pics from here: http://www.topspeed.com/cars/honda/2...ure380208.html

It ran at Thunderhill and did quite well with a rather pristine driver lineup. News quote from the 25 hour site:

"Honda CR-Z Hybrid Finishes Second at Thunderhill
A valiant, come-from-behind effort from Honda Performance Development (HPD) came up just short at the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, as HPD's hybrid Honda CR-Z racer recovered from a near 10-lap deficit to finish second in the Endurance 3 class in the 2010 edition of the National Auto Sport Association's (NASA) season-ending event.

Driving the #19 CR-Z for the final three hours, Lawson Aschenbach moved onto the lead lap during the final hour, and closed to within 1 minute, 10 seconds of the winning Mazdacage.net Mazda Miata at the checkers, the closest finish among the half-dozen classes competing in this year's 25 Hours. The two E3 competitors finished 8th and 9th overall in the 72-car field, ahead of many faster-category entries.

It was a weekend of firsts for Honda Racing and HPD, marking the first time the racing arm of American Honda has fielded its own race team; the first appearance of racing cars completely developed and adapted in-house at HPD; and the first appearance of North American racing cars developed from existing production-model gas-electric hybrids: the Honda CR-Z.

After starting from the E3 pole in the hands of Peter Cunningham, refueling problems with the #19 Honda cost it a pair of five-minute "stop-and-hold" penalties early in the race. Later, additional repairs were needed to meet track noise statutes, costing the team additional time as night - and steady rain - fell on the northern California road course, dropping the CR-Z nearly 10 laps off the lead.

A second HPD Honda, the #93 CR-Z, took over the early-race E3 class lead when its teammate was delayed, with driver Simon Pagenaud setting the fast race lap for the class at 2:03.180 in the opening hours. But the CR-Z sustained substantial body and suspension damage in an Hour 4 crash, when Sage Marie lost control and rolled exiting Turn 2.

After three hours of repairs by the HPD crew, the Honda returned to action in 21st position and moved up to 16th in the night hours, but was retired just before 8 a.m. Sunday with transmission failure.

HPD Runs Second at Thunderhill - 2

The dramas involving the #93 Honda helped set the stage for the come-from-behind effort by the #19 team, which began a long, steady climb through the field as Aschenbach, Cunningham and Chad Gilsinger each drove multiple tints, lapping an average of 2.5-seconds quicker than the competition in their effort. Aschenbach turned into the "iron man" of the event, driving more than seven-and-a-half hours in all.

The Honda Team Research-West Honda Fit, prepared by associates from Honda R&D, finished fourth in class, 15th overall, and was the best-placed of three E3 cars built to new "B-Spec" rules.

Featuring only limited performance modifications to an essential stock Fit, the THR-W team had a steady, uneventful 25 Hours, gradually edging out an advantage over the pair of Mazda2s that were also prepared to B-Spec rules, and breaking into the top five in E3 by Sunday morning to finish 15th overall.

Highlights from the 2010 25 Hours of Thunderhill will be televised as a one-hour Versus Network special, airing at 6 p.m. EDT on Wednesday, March 23.

Michael Kinstle (HPD CR-Z Race Team Large Project Leader): "I'd be lying if I didn't admit that we're just a bit disappointed at not being able to pull off a come-from-behind victory. But I'm completely proud of what we've accomplished in our first event as a race team, the first race for the Honda CR-Z, and the first race for a hybrid production-based car. The Honda CR-Z gave us an excellent package as a starting point - we just enhanced it. We also were fortunate to have a truly amazing driver lineup and incredible tires from BFGoodrich. We ran one set of rain tires for more than 330 laps; more than 1,000 miles. So, a big 'thank you' to BFG."

Lawson Aschenbach (driver, #19 HPD Honda CRZ) finished 2nd in the Endurance 3 class and 9th overall: "The Honda CR-Z was fantastic. It handles so great, and ran flawlessly for the whole 25 hours. My hat's off to the entire HPD team, all our sponsors and of course BFG for the excellent tires. It's a shame we came up just a bit short at the end, but this team can take a lot of pride in what we achieved this weekend."

pasaunde

HPD wasn't playing around when they broke out the hired guns.
I watched Cunningham crack off 2:07s this year at VIR in the Realtime car...thinking to myself WTF.

JHall250

Finished second...behind a Miata

night

Could've been behind everything.

By any chance was the rear wing just for pics?

pasaunde

Ouch..that's even worst than getting passed by a rustang.
The article mentioned they had a few 5 min stop and go penalties and some mechanical issues. Sounds like they did pretty well considering, endurance racing is tricky like that sometimes.

JHall250

Another addition to make was that even though the CRZ is a "hybrid" the electric system was designed as a push to pass system. It was not active unless manually selected by the driver.

pasaunde

Electrical NOS, what will they think of next........

ginsu2k

FYI. That rear cross bar should be bolted to the chassis with two bolts at each mounting point (instead of just one), that way it can resist a moment (twisting) type of loading as well as tension and compression.

JHall250

A way to market something as being "new" even though electric cars have been around since the 1900s.

drewbie

sounds like the KERS system to me

SHG_EasyE

Im proud of the CRZ's American road racing debut. Considering the problems they dealt with throughout the race the placed quite well. Given more time Im sure they would have taken pole. Im excited to see what happens next year!

JHall250

Considering they lost to a Miata I highly doubt it.

Spec comparison

Stock Weight
1990-1993 Miata 2,100lbs
CRZ 2,600lbs

Suspension
1990-1993 Miata Double Wishbone 4 four corners
CRZ 2,600lbs Front: MacPherson Strut (aka pogo stick) Rear: Twist beam (glorified rear sway bar)

Gasoline Engine Power
both 122hp

Layout
Miata FR
CRZ FF

Assuming no mechanical failures if there is a Miata in the same class as the CRZ will be second. The platform the CRZ sits on just cannot compete with the Miata's or the older double wishbone honda's. If you don't believe me there is a going to be a spec Fit class coming 2011 which should be very similar in power/weight as the Spec Miata and Spec Miata's times (along with Honda H4) will destroy Spec Fit's times because the platform is just that much better.

SHG_EasyE

Anyone that follows racing knows that finishing position doesnt tell the whole story, especially with a brand new platform. In my opinion this is a great debut for the CRZ, and I think if they come back next year prepared with lessons learned from this years event they have a very good shot at 1st place.

SHG_EasyE

I will admit that the Miata has a brilliant chassis and suspension, which makes it such a shame that it is adorned with such a peice of **** drivetrain. The fact that a maximized (legal) 99' Spec Miata engine puts out MAYBE 125 whp is just pathetic. Thats the 99' 1.8 liter powerplant, the 1.6l powerplant you are referring to above is 95-110 whp maximized in SM trim. Mind you when the motor is built to these limits they are good for about 30 hours of racing before the rod bearings start to eat themselves.
These engines are being produced in the 21st century, there is no excuse that a 1.8l engine should be so poorly designed.

You might say, well the engine cant work efficiently with the stock exhaust manifold etc in stock spec. Then we will go to ITA specs. Open ECU, Open intake (while still inside the engine bay meaning no ram air setups), open exhaust and manifold, port matching, open ignition system, higher compression among a few other small things. In this trim youre looking at about 135 whp.

Its not only the engine thats poorly designed, its the transmission aswell. The cases and shafts have so much flex that even under Spec miata power numbers ( between 10-20 HP over stock ) the shafts separate under high load enough to where the gear teeth shear eachother off. Fantastic.

What Im saying is the Miata with the right drivetrain will be a fantastic car, but with stock engine and transmission (Spec Miata) they are pretty awful race cars. The lack of reliability makes the amount of money spent to be in the top 10 tower over what youre actually getting out of the vehicle.

Once the CRZ and Fit are dialed in they will take the cake over a Miata in reliability, driving experience and operating cost every time, while being faster or at least competitive with the Miatas times.

JHall250

Honda has always been an amazing engine/drivetrain creator especially over Mazda. In fact Honda also used to be an amazing chassis maker as well but after coming away from double wishbone they still have yet to dial in creating their new universal compact chassis. There were very many improvements made in 06 vs 01-05 but there are still many shortcomings that prevent it from reaching the standard they set with the EF/EK/EG/DC chassis.

As far as the Mazda reliability I have heard very few complaints from my fellow Spec Miata racers. I will say that the engine in that car is pathetic and the stock chassis design (89-98) is underbuilt but Spec Miata allows for many updates in regards to chassis supports and other modifications. I'll be interested to see how the CRZ does next year.

SHG_EasyE

I agree with you on that for sure. The new suspension designs have been coming up short compared to the older cars, but people can still make them work, although without following conventional chassis setup ie. basically making the rear suspension not work lol.

But even though thats the case C360 still managed to put the Si's on podium in ST class in driver, team, and manufacturer championships. Its still the car to beat in ST class.

In regards to the early car spec Miatas there are actually no chassis modifications allowed other than the spec Bilstien/Eibach coilovers, Eibach swaybars, and 99+ style tophats.

You cannot use the 99+ hubs (wider track) or the 99+ lower control arms that have beefier sway bar mounts although there has been talk of allowing this in the future. Also you cant use the 94-04 rear subframe bracing on the 90-93 cars.