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So lets start by saying that i have yet do any actual track driving but i am hoping to soon mostly in a road courses setting hopefully going on to compete in a street class setting. No I am from North Carolina and done a lot of spirited driving in the mountains and around charlotte. I had a fully built crx some years ago and loved it. Now though that car is sold and I'm working on a 04 EP3 hopefully to get a all motor k24 in it eventually. SO i have had the car 100000 miles or so and currently have some Handkook v2s on them that were never rotated cause I'm lazy and have been sitting waiting roughly 4 years for me to get around to actually replacing the clutch and driving it again. Now the car for being all stock handles well on these tires but at about 80 in a good turn the back end brakes loos and slides a little not bad and u can count on it every time.
So i was considering up grading to some wider tires, different compound and or wider rim currently its on stock rims with 205 55 r16. Reading a little leads me to believe that 230s would be a really fast track tire for this car. So I'm ok with that i even just recently came across some type s rims with still good 225 45 17 that for the price I'm probably gonna get just to get the car drivable on the cheep and see how it goes. though I really don't like the fact that my gearing will get taller on the 17 basically no matter what I do tire wise
After reading some in this forum mostly about older cars it sesames that streaching and squaring a tire on the rim is actually possibly better for for performance but i will only have 16x6.5 or 17x7.5 rims to work with in the sort term so i was looking on tire rack doing some comparisons
The Handkooks sepc like this rim range 5.5-7.5 measuring rim is a 6.5 which gives me a section width of 9.1 and a tread width of 6.5
in my assumption i could go to a wider rim giving me more section width thus streaching the tread with more square or i could go to
a 245/50r16 with a rim range of 7-8.5 measured on a 7.5 rim with section with of 10 and a wider tread with of 7.7 as every other size tire size is measured with a wider rim with basically the same section with but more tread with examples are below.
SO the question is wider rims and streatch wider tires or just brake down and get some wide dot r and some wide rims to drive on. This is not my dd but would be used on the street so like AZENIS or some R1Rs maybe even the R-S4 would be better handkook example kumho example
hopefully going on to compete in a street class setting.
Congratulations on making the decision from going from the street to the track. Its infinitely safer and will allow you to learn a lot more at a faster pace. I could write a book on tire sizing... so its best to start some sort of build thread and let us "help" with suggestions as you develop.
IMHO nothing is "fully built" because there are always changes to make. I also firmly believe you need to learn on some street tires... whatever you have right now is fine. I say that because unless you have figured out your gearing for "street class setting" and you know the top speed required at each track, you dont have to worry about your tire size yet.... because tire size will impact your gearing. Also street tires will give you the best feedback. Additionally, a set of tires is likely the cost of another event... and right now, no matter how good you think you are, seat time is the most important.
I highly recommend going with either a 15 inch or 17 inch wheel. They will have the most "take off tires" (buying used) in the future and the best size selection... and 15s work best for B and D series and are suitable for K series. 17s can give you the best contact patch/size for a FWD honda and the gearing generally works well for a K series (Find Dublo... i've been beating him over the head to give up on his 16 inch wheels).
For 16 inch wheels the tire selection is extremely poor and you will be buying new tires all the time. Unless you are on a square setup, you'll never need new rear tires. IMHO to maximize the rules and fit the most tire, a staggered setup could be in your future. There is at least a 50/50 chance this is a decision you have to make while competing. you can run a 205 or 225 rear and buy just front pairs and save money in the long run.
My rear tires on my Honda Challenge H2 car are over 30 heat cycles... and i have no intentions of changing them. Where is run down my fronts to almost the cords in about 20 heat cycles.
Congratulations on making the decision from going from the street to the track. Its infinitely safer and will allow you to learn a lot more at a faster pace. I could write a book on tire sizing... so its best to start some sort of build thread and let us "help" with suggestions as you develop.
IMHO nothing is "fully built" because there are always changes to make. I also firmly believe you need to learn on some street tires... whatever you have right now is fine. I say that because unless you have figured out your gearing for "street class setting" and you know the top speed required at each track, you dont have to worry about your tire size yet.... because tire size will impact your gearing. Also street tires will give you the best feedback. Additionally, a set of tires is likely the cost of another event... and right now, no matter how good you think you are, seat time is the most important.
I highly recommend going with either a 15 inch or 17 inch wheel. They will have the most "take off tires" (buying used) in the future and the best size selection... and 15s work best for B and D series and are suitable for K series. 17s can give you the best contact patch/size for a FWD honda and the gearing generally works well for a K series (Find Dublo... i've been beating him over the head to give up on his 16 inch wheels).
For 16 inch wheels the tire selection is extremely poor and you will be buying new tires all the time. Unless you are on a square setup, you'll never need new rear tires. IMHO to maximize the rules and fit the most tire, a staggered setup could be in your future. There is at least a 50/50 chance this is a decision you have to make while competing. you can run a 205 or 225 rear and buy just front pairs and save money in the long run.
My rear tires on my Honda Challenge H2 car are over 30 heat cycles... and i have no intentions of changing them. Where is run down my fronts to almost the cords in about 20 heat cycles.
Ok so i will stick with the 17s I'm kinda following https://motoiq.com/category/projects.../civic-si-ep3/ for the build but some stuff like the struts they use are out of my budget range atm if I go threw with my build i will probably end up in a different class but that will probably be ok right now the current goal is to switch to all polly bushings get a decent header to go with my cat back and find some good tires to square and replacing my clutch and fly wheel 9.5 lbs
over all goal is
k20a2 head on a k24 block
13:1 comp pistons
some stage 3 or 4 cams
over sized valves with good springs and retainers
coilovers and 1 inish drop
full roll cage
1 peice seats
5 point harness
build/ rebuilding page is here https://www.facebook.com/Pagenrayne
From my view point these look fairly square maybe another .5-1in wider rim would maybe the better so the full tread is setting my flat. So to get a little wider and hopefully at least that square my assumption would be Kuhmos ps51s at 235/55ZR17 on a 7.5 rim would be a increase of .5 in in section with and 1.5in increase in tread with and could be pushed wider to a 8.5in rim to square it more
Last edited by tool103; 10-27-2020 at 05:46 AM.
Reason: update clutch
Are they going to let you compete without any training/passing a driving test?
1. skip poly... its not worth the time and money. PCI is starting to develop some DC5 parts... they should work.
2. Leave the motor alone while you are training... at least to start.
3. again, just burn down the tires you have until you have a better idea of corner speeds and needs... because you'll want to finalize your tire selection with what will fit and what your gearing needs to be.
4. Please read #3 again... because with that kind of potential power, you will need to really know your gearing, brake size, etc. to select your real tire.
5. there are DC5s out there... they are similar... see what strut set up they are using. not everyone is on big money struts/shocks (i'm on reworked koni yellow shocks)... redshift motorsports has been good to most of us getting into the game.
Are they going to let you compete without any training/passing a driving test?
1. skip poly... its not worth the time and money. PCI is starting to develop some DC5 parts... they should work.
2. Leave the motor alone while you are training... at least to start.
3. again, just burn down the tires you have until you have a better idea of corner speeds and needs... because you'll want to finalize your tire selection with what will fit and what your gearing needs to be.
4. Please read #3 again... because with that kind of potential power, you will need to really know your gearing, brake size, etc. to select your real tire.
5. there are DC5s out there... they are similar... see what strut set up they are using. not everyone is on big money struts/shocks (i'm on reworked koni yellow shocks)... redshift motorsports has been good to most of us getting into the game.
Listen to him ^^
Honestly, it takes a good bit to make the EP3 Mac suspension setup competitive. You might want to swing back toward your CRX roots (or dc/eg/ek) for the double wishbone suspension. Either way, worry more about the seat time and work your way into the stickier tires. A 300whp K series in any one of the aforementioned platforms will be a handful even when dialed in. Personally, I would stay with the A3 in the EP3 until you have progressed enough with the platform seat time, suspension, and tire. If you are looking at the Grid Life Street class, that is the most competitive class in that series. The budget to be competitive in that arena is much more than it leads on. You will be 45-50K deep into that EP3 to be competitive (not to mention trailering, towing costs, consumables etc..) not trying to dissuade you but that is the reality of it. Work into the speed and once you are hitting PBs that are .02-.03 second range then look at more power as you are getting close to your theoretical best for the setup. I know it is tempting to go bonkers with the power, but maximize the platform first and worry about power after you have a good grasp of the car on track (ask me how I know this). Street driving is not the same.. the car with hot tires and warm brakes is completely different than street driving, and honestly no comparison. Once you have pushed the brake zones, corner speeds etc.. to the limit then upgrade. In my case I have been resisting aero so that I can learn how to dance with the car (car control) at the limit...you don't want stickier tires and what not masking bad habits. Its easier to find the limit on harder compounds like Kaan was saying and it is also cheaper. Once you have the car control down, upgrade to the stickier tire and find the limit again. You will be faster - quicker this way.
Are they going to let you compete without any training/passing a driving test?
1. skip poly... its not worth the time and money. PCI is starting to develop some DC5 parts... they should work.
2. Leave the motor alone while you are training... at least to start.
3. again, just burn down the tires you have until you have a better idea of corner speeds and needs... because you'll want to finalize your tire selection with what will fit and what your gearing needs to be.
4. Please read #3 again... because with that kind of potential power, you will need to really know your gearing, brake size, etc. to select your real tire.
5. there are DC5s out there... they are similar... see what strut set up they are using. not everyone is on big money struts/shocks (i'm on reworked koni yellow shocks)... redshift motorsports has been good to most of us getting into the game.
The absolute, most effective mod you can make right now is the driver mod. $1000 in track days/training, etc. will make your car go faster around your local track than any $1000 you can spend on any other car mod.
10-26-2020, 05:02 PM
rim size and section width or tread width
