steronz

My stainless brake lines are 4 years old. I'm going to be replacing all of my calipers soon, should I preemptively spring for new lines or is that unheard of?

solo-x

Are they bare stainless braid or have they been coated? If the stainless is bare, replace them. Dirt gets into the stainless braid and wears the nylon tube. Eventually the tube gets thin enough to rupture. The coated stainless lines are less likely to have this problem though.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Id go ahead and make that change.
It is a comsumable in my book.

rice_classic

This just went on my offseason checklist for the race car as one of my competitors had a SS front brake line asplode during a session... scared the jibbles out of him too!

FlewByU352

Coated last longer but yes they are a wear item. Brake dust and other stuff works it's way in like solo-x mentioned and they can rupture. I would love to see a braided line that is coated with a good amount of rubber. If you had a nice braided line inside the stock rubber line it would be great and I would say that is a just about last forever item.

MBellRacing

Coated will, in theory, last the lifetime of the car. We did testing at a company I worked with for our DOT-approved coated and braided lines and we never changed them on any car that had them. As has been said, not coated, change them out. I'd also be curious to see what the inside looks like on any brake lines after a while of use.

steronz

Well, this will at least make it easier to pull the calipers off for powerdcoating. I'll just get 4 vice grips and clamp the lines. Thanks everyone.

VTECIntegra9

< In for recommendations on who makes a good coated stainless braided brake line for our cars. (dc2 here)

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Goodridge polycoated lines have worked for me.
I'm sure there are other lesser known brands out there that are probably cheaper.
Ya can't go wrong with a line with coating on it over the steel braiding.
Do your research though.

Stinkycheezmonky

FWIW, I had two lines from a set of Goodridge (non-coated) start leaking after ~3-4 years of use. I didn't lose brake pressure very much, but of course still replaced them immediately.

VTECIntegra9

Well now im terrified of my brakes.. had mine on for 5-6years! (maybe more :-x)

My "**** to buy" list keeps growing.. ahh!

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Its a never ending money pit. We do what we do.

VTECIntegra9

It looks like Stop-Tech makes their braided lines with a clear pvc coating. From their site:

http://www.stoptech.com/products/sta...el-brake-lines

Dirty: Hehe so very true. A motor pull is the next step so I'm not looking forward to that... since it looks like I will have to get my **** together to race the spitfire this year... oh priorities... can't afford two race cars that's for sure.

descartesfool

No such thing as DOT approved brake lines. Only the manufacturer approves their own lines and claims they meet motor safety standards. DOT doesn't approve brake lines.

From the FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS
standard No. 106, section on hydraulic brake lines:
http://law.justia.com/cfr/title49/49....36.2.7.9.html

"S5.2.4 Each hydraulic brake hose assembly, except those sold as part of a motor vehicle, shall be labeled by means of a band around the brake hose assembly as specified in this paragraph or, at the option of the manufacturer, by means of labeling as specified in S5.2.4.1. The band may at the manufacturer's option be attached so as to move freely along the length of the assembly, as long as it is retained by the end fittings. The band shall be etched, embossed, or stamped in block capital letters, numerals or symbols at least one-eighth of an inch high, with the following information:

(a) The symbol DOT constituting certification by the hose assembler that the hose assembly conforms to all applicable motor vehicle safety standards."

So it is the manufacturer you have to trust that lines meet the standard. No such thing as DOT approved anything.

Also there is nothing in the standard about long term reliability testing, or about resistance to abrasion that I could find. No mention of anything to do with braided lines either. Only reference is to armor, as in:
"Armor means protective material installed on a brake hose to increase the resistance of the hose or hose assembly to abrasion or impact damage."

Only mention I could see has to do with removing the armor for certain tests.

descartesfool

Here is a sample of a failed stainless line from Earl's in this case, circa 2004. You can find examples that other manufacturer's hoses can fail as well. I would suspect failures of this kind would occur most often when lines are improperly fitted with too much stress/motion at the fitting end, due to no brackets on the lines or kinks, etc. All brake lines need to be properly supported. A friend of mine had some coil-overs installed by a shop and they didn't fit/brace the the brake lines properly. After a season of driving, he pressed the brake pedal hard going into a sharp right at the end of a fast straight in his Viper, and no brakes. Line failed, no brake line pressure and he wrecked his car into the tire wall.

RR98ITR

So true. The way out? You can "starve the beast", but how that is a positive for quality of life when the beast is cornered up on jackstands continues to escape me. Better to start out with a small beast.

Scott, who, speaking of beasts, never thought about it before, but his favorite doggie Is Championship White!

FlewByU352

Doesn't a proportioning valve help with such an event though? I thought if one line failed you would still have braking in the other 3?

RR98ITR

Nope. But a Tandem MC is supposed to, as is a properly set up balance bar.

Scott, who has dreams all the time in which his brakes don't work...I'm always going backwards...I don't want to go backwards...I'm gonna try the pedal on the right next time...

MBellRacing

I guess you're right, no DOT certification, just meeting their standard. We also used to have the little white rings that said DOT on them on the lines:

http://store.worksmotorsports.com/WO..._p/330.401.htm


A prop valve and dual master cylinders will not prevent a crash with a loss of brake pressure to one circuit. If you are trying to late brake for a corner and lose 40-60% of your braking ability, you're still going to head off pretty hard. It's like saying "well at least I didn't lose all four wheels-- only two".

FlewByU352

Thats when you hope for a nice run off, sand trap, gravel trap, thick wall of tires... lol. 40% braking is still better than no braking. Either way you are hitting something if you are charging hard.

descartesfool

If you take few minutes to read the part of the standard on hydraulic brake lines, you will see that there is a whole series of tests the lines have to go through for any manufacturer to claim their products meet the standard. I wonder how many companies who sell lines actually have all the equipment and take the time to do and document all those tests. It's really easy to put a label on a line that says DOT, but much harder and vastly more expensive to do the tests. If DOT was actually doing certification themselves, you could believe it, but otherwise, you could have some doubts about any manufacturer's DOT label. And just using Teflon tubing with a braid armor over it that meets the standard is insufficient. It is the whole line with fittings that must be tested.

Here is a list of the DOT tests listed in the German TUV approval that Goodridge has obtained mostly based on tests done at Goodridge's own British testing lab. Not certain what the TUV test standards are, but they appear to match the US standard FMVSS No. 106. Or at least the TUV report just says they confirm the lines were tested by someone else.
http://www.goodridge.net/webapp/wcs/..._67404_quality
I looked at a few other manufacturer's web sites, but only found copies of test reports on Goodridge's site.

I also found no mention anywhere that covering the braid with an outer plastic covering is part of the safety standard. If anyone can see where it says that...Otherwise it seems that makers of braided lines just put it on to increase long term reliability of the lines by preventing grit from getting between the braid and the Teflon tubing, and also to reduce abrasion on other parts caused by the braid. But there is nothing about long term reliability of braided lines or any other lines. And unless it says it specifically in the standard, bare braided lines could also meet the requirements.