DC2_R

Hey,

I was thinking of seeing what interest could be drummed up for an small time attack series type events here in the Pacific Northwest. We would run it with the same basic rules as We would use a points rated system based on car/mods/etc to figure out which class each individual would run in. As most of you know there are a few tracks up here that would great for this type of events. To name a few, Portland International Raceway, Bremerton Motorsports Park, The Ridge in Shelton, WA. I know there are few other tracks as well.

This is just a feeler post to see what kind of interest would/could be drummed up. If your interested in being part of the initial group that sets the laws/rules up feel free to PM me.

I have spoken to others on other forums and have been allowed to use their rules as a base for ours.

Scott

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

I have long been interested in getting something like this going, as the only thing comparable in our area is NWR SCCA Time Trials.

Do you have any experience in these sorts of things? There are many more considerations that need to be taken into account aside from just rule sets. Insurance, track fees, track requirements, etc.

Bremerton is the only track that is somewhat affordable if you have a low turnout @ $1200 per day (+ incidentals). It is a good "fundamentals" track but most people with experience do not want to attend events there when they can run at a bigger, technical track nearby for nearly the same money.

Pacific for example is closer to $10,000 per day. That means at the standard $200-ish per driver you have to have 50 drivers just to break even on the track fees.

I dont know what it costs the run an event at The Ridge yet but I am sure it is at least as much as Pacific.

It's not impossible if you have a team of the right people doing the legwork and enough interest from drivers who you can rely on to come to your events.

If it were easy I would have done it already. Regardless, I am willing to be part of it. The hardest part is coming up with the money for the track as you have to put down sizeable deposits to reserve the date for your event.

Also, it takes a bit for things like this to catch on. It likely will not make any money (we'd be lucky to break even for the first season) until the series has gained attention and has put on a handful of events.

-Harley

DC2_R

Harley,

I haven't been able to find enough people interested in a series of this type. It would be pretty cool to have a series like this or comparable to one is California.

Right now I am just trying to see if there is enough interest in something but from the looks of it there is none and there wont be enough. I might as well just attend lapping days with local clubs/groups.

Scott

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

Scott,

That has been my experience so far. Everyone I know that is dedicated to the sport is already involved in the Time Trials program/Lapping Days or is a licensed SCCA Club or Conference Road Racer and have no interest in the time only types of events.

Unfortunately, there are tons of people in the area who have cars that have been at least partially prepped for track abuse but many of them are not interested in putting all the go fast hardware to good use.

There are also lots of people out there that ARE interested, they just dont know where to start or have misconceptions that they have to have some sort of hardcore race car to get started. It is these people that I look for to educate and get involved in our regions events.

I'm not giving up by any means, I too would love to see just one series in the NW that is similar to the many that Socal puts on. Its an uphill battle though.

Once my car is ready for this season I plan to take it to some of the hardparker/carshow types of things (example: upcoming NOS Forum Fest) just to try to attract attention and let people know that they can take their daily drivers out and do more than drag/street race and bullshit in mall parking lots and that they dont need uber-horsepower and a roll cage to do so.

My car is a purpose built track car, but is still "pretty" enough to interest the JDM yo! crowd.

The more of us there are educating others and promoting the events that we presently have, the more potential there will be for more of the types of events we would like to have in the future.

I hope to see you at the track in the near future. Ill be the only guy around in a red hatch with a Jolly Roger pirate flag on top. If you see me, please come say hello! Same goes to anyone else that reads this.

-Harley

ChaseIntegra

I might be interested but as you stated ^ I know nothing about time attack series'. My car is currently sporting a track worthy suspension set-up and I'm still swapping a K20, but with that said I'd like to drive the **** out of it when it's done. Educate me

DC2_R

Now that I have read and thought about my words its not a points based system like NASCAR that deterimines the champ/winner.

The point system pertains to the modifications on the car for example tires, suspension (coilovers vs. springs), engine type (stock/swap) and so on.

In June I will be attending a drivers school/track event to get my feet wet. Google Cascade Sports Car Club and check into what events they have available.

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

CSCC does most of their events at PIR.

There are numerous other clubs that do lapping days, HPDE's, Time Trials, etc.

NWR SCCA, IRDC, PCA, BMCCA, Alfa Romeo Club (NWARC), the list goes on

rice_classic

Cascade is part of Conference and if you live in WA you could do a school even sooner, as in next weekend the 14th with the IRDC (also part of ICSCC).

Here's their link to the page regarding IRDC driving school if you want to do something sooner:
http://irdc-racing.com/irdc_school.htm

Here's a list of the member clubs that make up Conference (aka: ICSCC: International Conference of Sport Car Clubs)
http://www.icscc.com/club_contacts.php

Several of my good friends and fellow racers instruct with CSCC so you're in really good hands and I often volunteer to instruct with IRDC (I should be out there on the 14th).


To answer what Harley said... The Ridge Motorsports Park has driving/racing schools and track days through Ridge Racing School. RRR has discounted some upcoming track days but I can't mention price because of forum rules.

http://ridgeracingschool.com/schedule/

Great value, tons of track time and the course is amazing.

Good luck on getting this time attack series going it looks like a great way to get people on the track.

rice_classic

In thinking how to pull something like this off...

Creating a rule set and generating interest is actually the really really really easy part.

The challenge will be: How do you get use of the facilities to host an event?

Think about how much it costs to rent a racetrack facility for a day, then take into account the fact that since you're timing the results it's considered racing and thus you need event insurance, corner workers, an ambulance/safety vehicle etc...

You might be able to piggy back off another established group to this. A group that already has a relationship with a track(s), an insurance policy and the organization of personnel to help with the logistics.

ICSCC operates on a volunteer basis, not an employee basis so asking the those clubs to do this may be difficult, maybe not. They could do it at Bremerton, Shelton, Spokane or Mission. Portland and Pacific are getting more and more expensive to rent time at from that point of view so it's "iffy".

PGP could be a good facility to include as well.

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

Not sure what the deal is, but there are no more PGP Lapping Days on their calendar beyond March.

I wouldnt think they are scrapping the Lapping Day idea?

NWR SCCA is also holding a PDX (classroom instruction followed by same day lapping w/ an instructor) at Bremerton Motorsports Park on April 21st.

Ill be there, my car will not

DC2_R

Hopefully I can find an established organization that would like to have an event/organization like this under their name.

FaceTuned

iTrader: (4)

This would be nice I got a few cars that would be great contenders if you guys figure out some kind of sanctioning.

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

There is an existing program called SCCA Time Trials that is specifically designed with "levels" to give those with no experience a place to get started, and to give those with previous experience a place to see how their times stack against other experienced drivers.

The first event of the season is April 21st @ Bremerton Motorsports Park, you can find info here:

http://www.nwr-scca.org/timetrials/

You can sign up here (you will need to register a login/password):

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...F35C8CE33C693B

There are already programs in place for people to get started, and this is one of them. The SCCA Time Trials program is also the ONLY program in our area (aside from full on wheel to wheel racing) where your laps are timed.

Even if we are able to get a new "Time Attack" series started:

1) It is going to take a lot of time and a lot of work, why not get started now by attending existing programs

2) Drivers will still have to have prior experience. No sanctioning body is going to sign off on letting people goes ***** out on a race track with zero experience.

Drag racing, autocrossing, street racing, canyon bombing, etc. doesnt count and the last two will make you very unpopular with race drivers and officials.

I have been actively involved in the NWR SCCA Time Trials program for 3 years and it is the only program of its kind in our area, it is as close to a "Time Attack" for amateurs as you are going to get.

Is a great way to learn the basics and gain experience. If you have no prior experience on a road race track, sign up for the PDX.

If you have any questions on how to sign up or what to do, post them here or PM me and I will tell you everything you need to know.

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

See my posts in this thread and PM or post here if you have any more specific questions.

Also, you dont need a K20 to run on the track. I started out with a D15B and it was plenty for just starting out and it also helped keep me from making a critical mistake at very high speeds.

rice_classic

Disclaimer: My post evolved into a rant so feel free to ignore...

Philosophically I'm somewhat opposed to "modding" your car for the track except for safety or longevity of wear items. The reason: You don't know how to go fast yet, you only think you do and there's a difference (and that's not directed at anyone, just a blanket statement). If you already knew how to go fast, you most likely would already be racing, teaching or at the very least already know all the rules and venues of events. I can apply that comment directly to my younger myself!

Also I stand by the principle of: If you can't afford (financially or emotionally) to leave the car at the track (in a flaming ball of scraps) then you shouldn't be at a race track competing (racing, time trials etc... autox/HPDE doesn't apply here).

Like I said... Philosophically. In reality people like swapping engines, looking at dyno charts etc; and the next logical equation is seeing what it all can do and hopefully that enthusiast thinks of a track instead of the streets of KENT WA. It is rare that people think about the track event first and the vehicle second.

Why do I know this is reality? Anecdotally, it was my reality. I thought about the car first... 10 years ago I did my vtec swap, suspension, LSD, chipped computer, big brakes, Greddy exhaust.... Oh yeah, I was real cool. During all of that I never even once considered the track or even knew that it was a possibility; autox sure, but not the track! Looking back now I realize I wasted thousands and thousands of dollars on unimportant mods that could have been put to WAY better use. And by that I mean: track time, driving education or a vacation to the Nordschleife; or all of it.

How much track time does $5k buy you? I'll trade you 1 racing school, 2 advanced technique private trainer days, 8 track days and then a trip to Germany for a roll around the Ring for 1 Engine swap... Yes please.

Damn you vtec swap, how I hate you. I guess hindsight is 20/20 eh?


:end rant:


edit: The "build" I did 10 years on my old street CRX was all done with my father in his garage and was the first we bonded over anything since my childhood. And now, 10 years later, he co-drives my race car in his retirement living out a life long dream that he never got to fulfill after 68 years. Maybe that swap wasn't such a waste of money after all.

akcapr

So I want to attend the even at BSCC. To do so I just need to fill out that form and bring it to the event? Or do I also have to become a member of SCCA?

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

BSCC is Bremerton Sports Car Club, a completely different organization but I am sure you were referring to Bremerton Motorsports Park.

No you do not have to become an SCCA member in order to participate in the Time Trials event. Instead, what you will do is pay a $15 weekend membership to participate in the event.

Yes, you can fill out the form and bring it to the event or you can register online using the link I provided which is faster/easier. Your choice.

Also, you can register online and pay at the track when you show up in the morning if you would rather not pay online.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

-Harley

DC2_R

Its good to see the word is getting out about this and hopefully we all will be running side by side one day...

Harley check your PM I will see you on the 21st.

gringotegra

I am pretty sure we could get enough interest if we can get the Evo guys to attend!

DC2_R

Yeah we could but I am trying to get this like other organizations that are mainly Honda, but it would be cool to get the input from the EVO guys as well.

gringotegra

I am mainly saying Evo guys because there are a ton of them around here

akcapr

Yeah I meant BMP. I dont think Ill make it to the event in april as I already had an event planned, but Im definately planning on attending the next TT event after that (June I believe it said). Thx

Atmosfear

iTrader: (18)

June 23rd! I hope to see you there, my car will definitely be ready by then so Ill be running rather than instructing/watching from the sidelines.

-Harley

stormyblue1968

I am interested in Time Attack here in the Northwest. In the meantime, I'll check out SCCA Time Trials at Bremerton Motorsports.

wanabgts1

We would be very interested in a series like this. I understand setting something like this up would be fairly difficult.

What about doing it like some of the other series? Where they run what is basically a track day but then have timed sessions as well?

Seems like you could drum up more money for the track day with just some HPDE people going at the same time.

Just a thought, Im sure organizing it would be quite difficult. We are planning to travel more to cali next year for events of this type it would be great if there was some closer to home!

Zack