Catch 22

I don't think Karl is attacking you RJ.
I think its just possible that he's used the thing in 3 different cars, knows a bunch of really fast people that race very successfully with it, and is tired of seeing DE guys trash it on the internet.

I think, maybe, what Karl is saying is...
"It might be you."

I could be wrong, but thats how I'm reading between those lines. Actually, not between the lines at all.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think, maybe, what Karl is saying is...
"It might be you."</TD></TR></TABLE>

Could be. But I dont have the "race" diff that Karl has driven so I really cant make a comparison yet. I could have a totally different opinion after that, and the skys would open with sunshine, red carpet would fall in front of my car on grid, and big tittied umbrella girls would flock to my internationizzle integra everywhere I go in the paddock.

Paul H22A4

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Tom Fowler owns OPM.
The Prelude runs an OPM diff. Always has.
This car once held the ITS record at VIR... Fake diff.

[shrug]

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, whoops. I failed to make that connection. Makes sense now.

krshultz

I thought you just told me you asked for the non-street diff?

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought you just told me you asked for the non-street diff?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, but thats not how it was built. 900-1000lb rear springs, spss3 konis, metal bushings everywhere in the suspension and a migrane-inducing exhaust makes for one intolerable "street" car. I didnt want to cut corners on making the car more street friendly now since it will be going on a trailer next year anyways.

Paul H22A4

From: http://opmautosports.com/produ....html

Clutch type. The best we have ever tested and at a reasonable cost too! Many Improved Touring and Solo wins across the country. [ Visit FAQ for more info. ]

Wow, what a great description. It must be good!

You click the FAQ and get "page not found". It's been doing that forever it seems.

.RJ

Well part of OPM's business philosophy is that they dont do much in the way of online sales. They'd rather have the customer call in, and discuss their needs to make sure they are getting the right part(s). Nothing wrong with that, IMO. A month before I even ordered the diff, I called and spoke with them about it and they were able to answer all my questions.

krshultz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paul H22A4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, what a great description. It must be good!</TD></TR></TABLE>

To what degree do you bring any credibility to this conversation?

Website != diff.

Paul H22A4

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To what degree do you bring any credibility to this conversation?

Website != diff.</TD></TR></TABLE>

None, apparently.

I'm just another car guy with a low post count.

bamcrxgp

The OPM diff started out being for cars that no one else made an LSD for. I built the tranny in the Prelude and can tell you that it has an OPM diff in it. Their diif is also in a couple of World Challenge Proteges that Tindol Motorsports campaign. When Espenlaub finished fourth at Road Atlanta his car had an OPM diff in it. Thats with a 265hp 210tq motor.

My .02

Blake Meredith

slammed_93_hatch

what the big deal? RJ. says the diff doesn't work how he would hope it to, so he want to sell it, and get a different type. So let him, its his money, time, and car, so let him make decide which diff he wants to run.

Hracer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what the big deal? RJ. says the diff doesn't work how he would hope it to, so he want to sell it, and get a different type. So let him, its his money, time, and car, so let him make decide which diff he wants to run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe that the people you are referring to are not concerned with whether or not RJ wishes to sell his particular LSD. Instead, their responses on here are trying to refute some of the miss information being thrown around about this diff.

solo-x

are the race results the OPM diff gets due to the that its fast enough, or is it due to the fact that all the fast guys run it cause they're cheap?

stock oem diff spider gears are weak. for a race car, i'd want those things gone like yesterday. OPM reuses the stock gears and removes material from the pumpkin, further weakening a weak point in the car. failures seem rare and failure mode inderterminant though, so maybe the weak diff is more a drag racing concern.

as i've posted before, the OPM diff is a preload only diff. however tight you set it up under accel it will also be that tight under decel. how the frickin hell can that be BETTER then a diff that has ramps and can increase the lock percentage as wheelspin and power demands increase and decrease the lock percentage under decel? karl and scott, the OPM may work, i won't argue that. there is better stuff out there, though not for the price of the OPM. these fast guys running the OPM would be even faster if they ran a kaaz, quaife, or ATS. come up with some evidence proving otherwise that doesn't consist of "well this guy is winning and he's running this, this guy is loosing and he's running that". i'd argue that if you switched hardware the finishing positions wouldn't change, but the gap would.

everyone runs a certain car in a class cause its winning. is it winning because it's fast or just because all the fast guys are running it? is the setup winning because its fast or because everyone is running it?

nate - thinks the lady doth protest too much

phat-S

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what the big deal? RJ. says the diff doesn't work how he would hope it to, so he want to sell it, and get a different type. So let him, its his money, time, and car, so let him make decide which diff he wants to run.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not really the issue, that people use such a thread to take pot shots at OPM or the Diff which are separate entities is what gets most folks' kackles up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
are the race results the OPM diff gets due to the that its fast enough, or is it due to the fact that all the fast guys run it cause they're cheap?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is not the only limited slip used in IT by any means and its popularity and winning percentage is not based on it being the only product in use. Also see: "Their diif is also in a couple of World Challenge Proteges that Tindol Motorsports campaign. When Espenlaub finished fourth at Road Atlanta his car had an OPM diff in it. Thats with a 265hp 210tq motor." - Blake Meredith only 2 or 3 posts above yours.


I own three of them and I own them because its a good product period. In all honesty, I wonder if any of you guys are really aware of how ego-pumping your constant barbs and rags are. You just continue to hammer in the concept that those of us w/ season championships, race wins, overall wins, top 3s and 5s over potentially "far better equipped" competitors just shows how much better DRIVERS we are than they. Do you really want to relinquish those kind of props so easily? Frankly, this stuff makes me feel pretty damned good ... when I go downstairs and look at the plaques and trophies ... to think what I could have done w/ a "better" product ... wow. ... oh but then again, they don't give 0th place now do they? I think I'll "write a letter" to my RE to get a "better than first place" award offered up for folks that win by spending more money than they need to. Oh wait,
nahhhh, the equipment MUST suck and I really am this great! Yay me!

Works in 1st and 2nd but not in 3rd and 4th? I still don't think that you (.RJ) know what you are feeling.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I still don't think that you (.RJ) know what you are feeling. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I'm glad we're all using this thread to take pot shots at me as well as OPM. Less torque in the higher gears to the ground means less 'action' by the diff.

solo-x

would you show up to a race with a motor that is down 20hp? why show up to a race with a tranny that is incapable of putting down that extra 20hp?

lots of preload in an underpowered car means a great deal of push in the higher gears. basically the diff starts to act like a spool or welded diff instead of having the inside front turn slower then the outside front in situations where there is no wheelspin. units like the kaaz and ATS have much less preload and instead rely on the ramps and ramp angles to lock up the diff. this means that at low power levels (higher gears) the diff acts more like an open diff and lets the wheelspeeds be different like they need to be.

nate

Todd00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by solo-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you show up to a race with a motor that is down 20hp? why show up to a race with a tranny that is incapable of putting down that extra 20hp?

lots of preload in an underpowered car means a great deal of push in the higher gears. basically the diff starts to act like a spool or welded diff instead of having the inside front turn slower then the outside front in situations where there is no wheelspin. units like the kaaz and ATS have much less preload and instead rely on the ramps and ramp angles to lock up the diff. this means that at low power levels (higher gears) the diff acts more like an open diff and lets the wheelspeeds be different like they need to be.

nate</TD></TR></TABLE>


Nate don't bring facts into this thread. Obviously someone set a record somewhere with the OPM diff so it must be the best on one the market, right?

I would love some of the folks spitting out track records in this thread to drive a car with a stock ITR diff, an OPM diff and then an ATS diff. Both on the track and in an autox. Then they can sing the praises of whatever diff is the fastest and not go by which ITx guy can get away with saving a few hundred on a diff and still drive fast.

Catch 22

I have no idea why these idiots are spending 20 to 30 grand on ITA cars and then putting these awful fake diffs in them to save $300. And then there's those Protege guys finishing top 5 in WC (and Hemmingson won a couple of races IIRC). Friggin dipshits. If they'd only use an ATS they'd just kill everybody. Well, they'd kill everybody more better.

All of this while the professional DEers and autocrossers here on Honda Tech are plainly explaining to them that their equipment is crap.

What a bunch of morons.
When will they ever learn?

Scott, who has driven the OPM, Quaife, and Stock ITR and prefers that awful, weak, overpriced phantom grip that even Lyonel can't manage to break.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Scott, who has driven the OPM, Quaife, and Stock ITR and prefers that awful, weak, overpriced phantom grip that even Lyonel can't manage to break. </TD></TR></TABLE>

But have you driven an honest clutch pack diff - i.e. kaaz, ATS? There's a difference, and its big. Would it make me faster? Would I go from "hack" backmarker to race winner? That I dont know, and probably not.

Todd00

So there is no lemming mentality in roadracing, right? Say I wanted to build an IT car and said 'money is no object'. Im sure I'd get a list of what to do from folks and many of those lists would include an OPM diff because that's what they have and it works well, plus it has a track record or two.

Now, have any of those folks ever tried any of the fancy JDM bling ATS or a diff like that, or are they just spouting off what everyone else has or what they have heard works well?

solo-x

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have no idea why these idiots are spending 20 to 30 grand on ITA cars and then putting these awful fake diffs in them to save $300. </TD></TR></TABLE>

great question. why are they? your comments infer that the OPM is better then the other options out there. care to back that up with some actual DATA?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All of this while the professional DEers and autocrossers here on Honda Tech are plainly explaining to them that their equipment is crap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well that's a nice insult. i don't think i bashed your credibility. my rebuttle is that a) you don't have to be a fast driver to know that a motor that is down 20hp is going to be slower and b) you don't have to be able to understand how vehicle dynamics work to still drive fast. now, could we stick to actual technical discussion and leave the sarcastic insults out of it?

nate

Catch 22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, have any of those folks ever tried any of the fancy JDM bling ATS or a diff like that, or are they just spouting off what everyone else has or what they have heard works well?</TD></TR></TABLE>

And have you ever driven a well prepped ITA car with an OPM Diff installed?

Nobody in this thread has said that an ATS or a kaaz might not be better. All folks are doing is refuting this H-T.com thingy about the OPM diff being fake.

And I have autocrossed with a kaaz. In Brett Howell's National Championship winning FSP car. My feelings about it are... "It works."

If I were buying a diff right now it'd be an OPM. Not because its cheap, but because...

1. It works.
2. I know alot of people with really nice cars that are winning races with it (thats not lemming, thats just "smart").
3. I've driven with the others (except the ATS) and I'm not impressed. Especially with the quaife and the stock ITR.
4. You apparently can't kill one. Mine is 3 seasons old and still as good as day one and Adam had a transmission completely implode and the ONLY thing inside the housing that survived was the diff.
5. I STILL haven't found a front running racer that has used one and declared that he/she doesn't like it.

In the end, you guys look at the construction and the style and tell us "It can't be that good." We say, "OK, your loss."

Catch 22

Thats not an insult Nate.
Do you race?
No.

Then why are you trying to tell a bunch of racers that the thing they say works isn't really all that good? I don't stand behind RJ and tell him when to change the oil in the deep fryer. (See, thats an insult)

Data?
What data?
Is there a "How well diffs work" flowchart I don't know about.

You choose to look at the construction and use your expertise to declare that it can't be that good based on... I dunno. Hey, thats your loss. Have fun with that.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats not an insult Nate.
Do you race?
No.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So his opinion doesnt count because he's not at the top of the "pyramid of speed" ?

I would think that a lot of national level autox experience is a pretty good thing. At least it worked for pobst, endicott, and plenty of others..

krshultz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, have any of those folks ever tried any of the fancy JDM bling ATS or a diff like that, or are they just spouting off what everyone else has or what they have heard works well?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think what we're doing is looking at race results, finding out what the people winning races are using, and using that.

It's not all that complicated.