When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Decided after all to replace the RTA bushing with sphericals. No lube was included and the instructions kind of suck. Do I need to lube the bronze before putting it in?
here's the old 225k mile RTA bushing I've been tracking on for two years...
Last edited by iwannarace; 10-01-2018 at 11:19 AM.
Finally finished replacing a bunch of suspension parts (toe arm bushings, sway bar end links, inner/outer tie rods), and gutted about 200lbs out of the car. Also went with spherical RTA and compliance bushings based on killerpenguin's suggestion.
I've only driven it to the shop to have it corner balanced, but it feels much firmer. I can immediately notice a large difference from the 200K+ mile bushings that were on it. Shouldn't really be surprised I guess...
This is how the corner weights ended up using 170lbs of driver ballast.
LF 842
RF 769
LR 479
RR 406
Thoughts? What I can't really wrap my head around is how the target was a 50% cross weight even though the front to back and left to right weights are far from equal. Like, the left side weighs 150lbs more than the right side. Is the theory to just accept your static weights for what they are, and aim to optimize by raising/lowering the car?
Also, we started with a cross weight of 48.2%, and the tech made it sound like that was a huge improvement. Is it? I'm new to this. The alignment is still screwed up so I couldn't play around on the drive home.
Anyway, I'm excited to get back on track and see how much time I can shave off with all these changes! If I can find 2-3 seconds off my Sonoma time, I'll be jacked!
This is how the corner weights ended up using 170lbs of driver ballast.
LF 842
RF 769
LR 479
RR 406
Thoughts? What I can't really wrap my head around is how the target was a 50% cross weight even though the front to back and left to right weights are far from equal. Like, the left side weighs 150lbs more than the right side. Is the theory to just accept your static weights for what they are, and aim to optimize by raising/lowering the car?
Also, we started with a cross weight of 48.2%, and the tech made it sound like that was a huge improvement. Is it? I'm new to this. The alignment is still screwed up so I couldn't play around on the drive home.
Cross weights tend to take priority over left-right weight distribution because load transfer occurs diagonally across the car during turn in and track out. The forces involved in cornering are so high, a 1 percent difference across the left and right sides of your car will be almost imperceptible. But if your cross weights are off, even by half a percent, you will feel a significant difference in the way the car behaves when turning left VS turning right.
Speaking of which the guy who did your corner weighting is right. 48.2% cross is a lot of reverse wedge. Now that you got that addressed the car should behave better through left hand turns and feel more consistent through a longer session. I can't say how much time it's worth at Sonoma but I suspect you'll pick up a few tenths through the fast turns, especially in that last sector with the high speed esses.
Part of all the recent work was pulling the sunroof. The complete part weighed about 37Lbs. Replaced it with a 1/8th inch piece of Aluminum.
I drove it around a little bit with the big hole exposed and it made a crazy deep sound and vibrated the roof like crazy. Couldn't see jack out of the rear view mirror because it was vibrating so much.
Turned out pretty good.
I'll eventually paint it, or if I can find a carbon fiber sheet cheap enough, I'll just use it as a template to fab one out of CF.
Also considering replacing the rear quarter windows with CF sheets. I can't see through them when I'm in the car anyway.
Got back out to Sonoma last week and set a new PB. Shaved about 1.5 seconds off my last PB at about 1:59.4. I think the weight loss, corner balancing and bushings would have helped out more than that, but I think the RS4's are getting old.
A few of the Pirelli GT4 America cars were out practicing for the race this next weekend, and I happened to get some good vids of them while running some quick laps so I made this silly vid!
Now, question for the pros out there - I'm understeering pretty hard in the carousel (long downhill left hander) and it's killing my exit speed. I want to increase traction at the front wheels without deliberately increasing oversteer. What are some proven methods for this? Would it make sense to add a front splitter/air dam without adding a rear wing? Unhooking the front sway maybe?
Setup: stock GSR sway bars F/R, spring rates are 550/700, and tires are square.
Go up in springs 700-800 F Take the rear up too 8-1K
God there is so many ways to get this better car wise. But you have to stay within the rules of your class so yea might wanna make sure the new CCR is out first.
Driver: go see Tim Barber @TFB Performance. He is the only one i can think of right now that can help you with those few things that cost you seconds.
The other simulator place closed down I think it was "pro racing simulators" which was co located with AV8Supercars
was there a pro photographer at this event? I was able to eliminate push by increasing front spring rate... the cause to your push needs to be determined.
@Kaan it was a speedsf event and they usually have photographers out there, but speedsf takes weeks to post photos. I suspect they will be up in the next week or so.
I thought increasing spring rate would cause more understeer? reduces mechanical grip or something like that?
@dirty19 i suspect a minor blown head gasket. I was getting air/exhaust in the cooling system. It was fine for 5-6 laps and then would start overheating due to airpockets and water being pushed into the overflow. I've got it torn down now. Needed to replace timing belt and pumps anyway.
Has anyone tried running just a front splitter without a wing or diffuser to balance it out?
@Kaan it was a speedsf event and they usually have photographers out there, but speedsf takes weeks to post photos. I suspect they will be up in the next week or so.
I thought increasing spring rate would cause more understeer? reduces mechanical grip or something like that?
Has anyone tried running just a front splitter without a wing or diffuser to balance it out?
I spent 2018 with a splitter and no wing. It did add some front grip for the setup I was running... but remember, everything has to work together. Your alignment, spring rates, shock settings, etc. all influence something and are related in major and minor ways. My car was very neutral in everything but high speed turns... then you could tell the car was slightly out of balance.
I'm asking for the pictures because watching the video, there is a lot of elevation change and it leads me to think you are 3 wheeling/dog legging a lot. I've spent this cars development and my Integra development trying to negate 3 wheeling in corners. Sure it makes for a good photo but its not helping tire management and/or handling. We need to find the cause of your push, and videos/photos and comments for spectators help.
did you make any tire pressure adjustments? If you did what happened? Did you make a rebound adjustment to the shocks and what happened?
Yes, when you look at the "raw," adding spring rate will work the tires harder and reduce traction... but when you look at it holistically, for my issue, raising front spring rate has virtually eliminated my push. contemporary setups are using higher front spring rates than the rear and uses the swaybar to tune rear rotation. Here has been the progression of my setups.
DC2 Low HP setup (150-160hp B20s, LS and 4.4 GSR trans, Mfactory plate diff)
500f/500f, ITR rear sway bar, RS front bar, front rebound set to middle setting, rear rebound set to stiff, -2.5F/-1.5R camber, 1/8th toe out up front and 0 toe in the rear.... on 200TW tires this setup was fairly neutral and would allow me to overdrive the car easily and dial it back when needed. I did run a front splitter on this setup and it did increase front traction, but as stated before... it made me work a lot harder in the fast corners.
EK Low HP setup (150ish HP B20 with 4.4FD on GSR trans, Mfactory plate diff):
800F/700R, ITR rear sway bar, no front bar, front rebound set to the middle setting, rear rebound set to stiff, front compression set to soft, rear compression set to middle setting, -2.5/-1.5 camber, 1/8 toe out up front, 1/8 toe in in the rear.... on 200TW tires this setup was okay for the HP. it was much like the DC2 setup but slightly faster per lap... roughly 1 -1.5 seconds depending on the track. This setup was very stable and consistent throughout the sessions. Rarely did I develop a push... but it would happen on very hot days. I was only running the front splitter/side skirts with this setup... I tried to run this setup with a 9lives wing and the bigger HP... and I developed a push, but I was able to carry more speed and get to higher speeds faster so it really stressed out the toyo RRs.
EK higher HP setup (190hp B18C5, with 4.928 FD on GSR trans, Mfactory plate diff):
1000f/700r, ITR rear sway bar, no front bar, front rebound set to 4/5 stiff, rear rebound set to middle, front compression set to middle, rear compression set to middle, -3.2/-2.5 camber, 1/8 toe out in the front, 0 toe in the rear.... on Toyo RRs this setup has been very neutral with a little bit of push toward the end of a 40 min race (but I am not racing to manage my tires at all). This setup was worth 2 seconds at VIR (with a line change) and critical for me to stay flat on the throttle on entry to the flat esses there. I lost my windshield after dropping those 2 seconds and still kept those 2 seconds off (while losing 4-5mph on each straight away)... so I can attribute a lot of time pickup to my line development, but also to the setup.
Got back out to Sonoma last week and set a new PB. Shaved about 1.5 seconds off my last PB at about 1:59.4. I think the weight loss, corner balancing and bushings would have helped out more than that, but I think the RS4's are getting old.
A few of the Pirelli GT4 America cars were out practicing for the race this next weekend, and I happened to get some good vids of them while running some quick laps so I made this silly vid!
Now, question for the pros out there - I'm understeering pretty hard in the carousel (long downhill left hander) and it's killing my exit speed. I want to increase traction at the front wheels without deliberately increasing oversteer. What are some proven methods for this? Would it make sense to add a front splitter/air dam without adding a rear wing? Unhooking the front sway maybe?
Setup: stock GSR sway bars F/R, spring rates are 550/700, and tires are square.
Sonoma looks like a fun track! Lots of elevation change.
Quick background: I'm a long-time TTer / racer who will eventually come back out and into TT6. I can offer up information about build and setup if you have any questions.
(My Integra is B18B-powered and will be able to squeeze into TT6 with minimal changes from my TTE / PTE setup. It may be < 140whp but I still squeezed out a 14-flat @ 94)
Last edited by DirtyDC4; 09-16-2019 at 09:43 AM.
Reason: Typo
Basically, the update is I think I've given up on the spec build. I decided I just want to see how fast I can take this car. I like the drive, mod, drive, repeat process too much, at least for now anyway. It still may be a TT build in the future just because I run with NASA a few times a year, but it's not really going to be a true spec build like I had intended when I started this thread.
Set a new PB at Sonoma this weekend knocking 2 seconds off my previous PB, and the data shows I could have been closer to 3 seconds if I tightened everything up.
Changes vs. last time out were,
1320 4-2-1 Header
3'' Amazon Exhaust (no cat)
remove a/c
Cut rear bumper
I think removing the a/c and cutting the rear bumper actually made a huge difference in balance and high speed stability. I was much more comfortable in turns 1 and 9 which are fast and bumpy. The car also felt much more balanced with less weight hanging far out over the nose. Noticeably less understeer, without the a/c. Shocker, I know... Rotated better - I had my first off at Sonoma in the morning (miraculously didn't hit anything) because the rear end stepped out where it never had previously.
Before my next outing I'll be doing either,
Adding some aero (splitter and wing),
or 100tw tires,
or the Kraftworks Rotrex Supercharger kit I picked up a few months back (still need a few little things),
or lsd, flywheel and new clutch (maybe new tranny).
I see pros and cons to all of them.
Last edited by iwannarace; 09-30-2019 at 08:52 PM.
Before my next outing I'll be doing either,
Adding some aero (splitter and wing),
or 100tw tires,
or the Kraftworks Rotrex Supercharger kit I picked up a few months back (still need a few little things),
or lsd, flywheel and new clutch (maybe new tranny).
I see pros and cons to all of them.
Or something else... You guys ever almost immediately regret a purchase? Unexpectedly, I had a chance to pick up a carbon fiber hatch + fal lexan window and a carbon fiber hood for pretty damn good price, but the catch was they were painted red. No big deal cuz race car, right? I was really interested in this because of the potential weight savings. I figured it would be 50-60lbs saved off the highest parts of the car.
Fun facts:
Weight savings from switching OE hood to VIS CF hood = 10lbs
Weight savings from switching OE hatch and glass to VIS CSL CF hatch and fal lexan = 23lbs
Needless to say I am a little disappointed in the total weight savings which now has me questioning the purchase even though it was a good deal.
Fortunately, I'm pretty sure I could get most of what I paid for them back if I ever decide to sell. What do you think?
Last edited by iwannarace; 10-08-2019 at 07:31 PM.
Reason: spelling
It was 2325 with 3/4 tank before I replaced the complete stock exhaust/manifold, pulled the a/c and replaced the hood/hatch. I'm guessing it's around the 2200 mark. I still need to pull the PS and maybe ABS. I'm running out of stuff to pull out.
You could always get a color matched wrap on them if the Xmas theme annoys you too much. Personally, its all about the time, function over form always wins in the end unless its a car show :-P
Ps: That little lip on the hatch looks pretty rad!
Honestly the colors don't bother me as much as the lack of weight savings. I guess I'll just need to get it out to the track and make a decision after.. I kind of like the lip too. i wonder how it will feel compared to the little gsr wing.
Before my next outing I'll be doing either,
Adding some aero (splitter and wing),
or 100tw tires,
or the Kraftworks Rotrex Supercharger kit I picked up a few months back (still need a few little things),
or lsd, flywheel and new clutch (maybe new tranny).
I see pros and cons to all of them.
aero is a complicated topic, but you'll want a well sorted suspension before really taking advantage of it.
100TW tires will required +600lbs springs and the shocks to take them
supercharger and the power... its going to change a lot of things, like braking markers, etc. seems more of a crutch move
Trans/Gears with LSD, flywheel and clutch will net you 2-3 seconds on track. B16/ITR trans, 4.9FD and a decent LSD is the go-to on the east coast.
aero is a complicated topic, but you'll want a well sorted suspension before really taking advantage of it.
100TW tires will required +600lbs springs and the shocks to take them
supercharger and the power... its going to change a lot of things, like braking markers, etc. seems more of a crutch move
Trans/Gears with LSD, flywheel and clutch will net you 2-3 seconds on track. B16/ITR trans, 4.9FD and a decent LSD is the go-to on the east coast.
Learn me a little more on your gear ratios. I presume you're using a B16 or ITR trans with a 4.9FD? What tire size? When you shift from 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th, where are your RPMs dropping too? Max speed? Thanks!
09-30-2018, 03:04 PM
Re: NASA TTE Build Help
