Mjalaly

So... I will be on my fifth motor soon (longest lasting 1200miles) and I wanted to get some of your thoughts on what might be going on and maybe some ideas on prevention. You can read all of the drama here....
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced.../#post51405570

This last engine, that I built just to make sure it was right, lasted about 500 miles before most of the bearings started to go. On this last engine build some people suggested a baffled oil pan (I did a weld in option post #393) and a ATI dampner which were both added in but that didn't help. This time around I plan on having 4PistonRacing build the engine, I also plan on adding a Canton Oil pan and an Accusump. A dry sump is really out of the budget right now. I also plan on adding a few oil pressure sensors to datalog along with an accelerometer but i cannot find one for hondata.

Have you guys seen anything like this?
Are there some other things i should install or look at to keep it from happening again?

thanks!

KoRn_vIRuZ

I would suggest going NA and applying the KISS principle. Good luck!

Nurburgring

I almost lost a 220whp B18 to oil starvation at the track. In our first race, we noticed oil pressure dropping from 75 to 30 psi during braking and fast corners. We decided to open the engine after that race: rod bearings were almost gone. We upgraded to a Canton baffled oil pan and replaced the ITR oil pump with a 4piston unit. Never had an issue again, oil pressure is rock solid. I do not believe an accusump is necessary or useful, it also adds more points for potential failure (as many Lotus Exige Cup owners found out when they lost their oil through the factory-installed accusump lines). Oil pressure logging is nice, but even a camera pointing to your oil pressure gauge is sufficient to diagnose the problem. Good luck!

Mjalaly

well that's good to know on the accusump. Someone also mentioned that it doesn't protect against oil areation which may also be an issue.

iwannarace

can you share details to the oil pump you're using (brand/model)?

Mjalaly

I think he is talking about this one

http://www.4pistonracing.com/4p-ported-b-series-oil-pump

Nurburgring

Exactly. Highly recommended.

Mjalaly

Do you guys have any opinion on which pan to use? Moroso or Canton?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...BoCZoUQAvD_BwE


Moroso 5.5 QT. Steel Oil Pan Honda Acura B18 B17 B16 VTEC

qfast817

Are you using oem bearings? 500 miles isn't much at all.

Mjalaly

I've tried both

and who the hell changed this thread post title?! WTF?! Can Honda Tech just change whatever they want?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Sent you PM about that. And no, we can't just change anything..

boxedfox

I've seen both firsthand. The Canton design has more intricate baffles and trap doors, which might actually be worth it for your build.

The Moroso pan works well in naturally aspirated racecars. It just doesn't have bells and whistles of the Canton pan.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Check around for some first hand experiences. I'm pretty sure I read some negative reviews about the Canton having some issues with a flimsy/not flat flange and being persistently leaky. Just hearsay from me, but maybe someone can confirm/deny. Beyond that, I've seen it in person at a trade show and it does look like a pretty cool piece..

theYBLEGAL

Geeze man, 5th one? I remember when you were putting the chassis together. In for updates!

Honestly not seeing the benefit of a larger oil pan except to give you more of a buffer on heat soak. It's not like the oil pickup is lower in the oil pan. Moroso makes an aftermarket oil pickup, but offhand I don't know if it drops the pickup point lower or not. If you want it, I will send it to you.. I bought it a LONG time ago, and never used it. I think because it was too long actually...Which would make reasonable sense. But basically unless the pickup is submerged in more oil, what difference does it make how much surface area the oil has? It's still going to slosh off to the side. The kickout just means there's more space to slosh IMO.

Baffles make some sense to keep oil from sloshing. Perhaps you are overheating the oil? The OEM oil pan should be sufficient, with baffles installed.

I know you're pulling some hard G's, but AFAIK Ariel Atoms don't have issues with starvation. A google search turned up no such incidents. I'd try to use that as a reference.

In your pics in the other drama thread, the oil pickup is certainly dented. That will aid in oil starvation.

The bearings in those pics look like they had oil coking onto them. I've not seen bearings that brown before, especially if they are out of tolerance and have grinding going on. Maybe because of oil starvation it cooked there... but have you monitored oil temperatures?

One more thing I've learned helps, is overfilling your oil pan. I've had more than a few experienced fellows at my weekend track days tell me how they overfill their oil to prevent starvation, and no one has any issues there.

Rotating assembly was balanced? I saw you had the crank journal line-honed. But I didn't see if you said the rotating assembly was balanced or not. From what I'm told, if I remember correctly, you need to balance the individual parts in the rotating assembly, as well as balancing them as a whole. I remember my machinist telling me how Honda's balance of the rotating assembly is special compared to most domestics.