Shmeek

I'm getting tired of this, the rear sub frame has once again ripped out due to the larger sway bar. This is the 3rd time. Amazingly, from the last time this was fixed, the car hasn't even seen an autocross course or track. The bar is simply a Mugen 22mm bar. I'm not sure if the start of the problem is the bolt tearing out or the bracket breaking, as both seem to happen.

I'm not too up on all the other support brackets that are out there. What are my options once I get the frame welded. again.


Modified by Shmeek at 10:18 AM 3/24/2006

Vitt1

Are you using high spring and shock rates? I have been using the BSQ kit for at least 3 years now, first with the ITR 22mm, then with the ITR 23mm bar and no tear so far (HPDE track days driven).

But if you are worried, the ASR subframe kit seems solid; I haven't used it, but there have been very good reviews about it.

rockdude14

asr or comptech

what class are you racing in?

Jack Black

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">asr or comptech

what class are you racing in?</TD></TR></TABLE>

As long as you do not autocross in STS or SP. Those are not legal in those classes. I assume that's what rockdude14 is hinting at.

ronald55555

I'm not too familiar with the sts/sp rues, but what is the rule that deems them illegal? i thought you're free to use whatever sway bar and strut tower bars/misc braces in those classes

rockdude14

you were until 2006
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/162172.aspx (thread)

Non-standard lateral

members which connect between the brackets for the bar are not

permitted.

now i have to figure out what to buy instead of comptech

Shmeek

Yeah...autocross in STS. Otherwise, just track days. Is the BSQ kit STS legal? And linky for BSQ?

I do have an upgraded suspension, though not all that stiff compared to many other STS cars.

Vitt1

Here's the link to BSQ:
http://www.geocities.com/bretq/mounting_kit.html
http://www.geocities.com/bretq....html

Make sure you follow the install directions, tighten endlinks when car is on the ground and suspension loaded.

Shmeek

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shmeek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah...autocross in STS. Otherwise, just track days. Is the BSQ kit STS legal? And linky for BSQ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll answer my own question after reading the SCCA thread. The BSQ & BEAKS kit are legal because they don't involve a tie bar.

GBRacing

Can you still buy the BSQ Kit? Where?

Weston

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GBRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you still buy the BSQ Kit? Where?</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.geocities.com/bretq

Works well on my car... somewhere around 22 road course events with it, and around the same number of autocrosses. No tear-out or other problems, unless it managed to happen this weekend, because it was fine when I looked at it a few days ago.

If you make a knock-off kit with the BSQ instructions, make sure you use decent metal, like what BSQ sells... some people have opted for weaker stuff and had problems.



Modified by Weston at 11:49 AM 3/13/2006

GBRacing

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Weston &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.geocities.com/bretq

Works well on my car... somewhere around 22 road course events with it, and around the same number of autocrosses. No tear-out or other problems, unless it managed to happen this weekend, because it was fine when I looked at it a few days ago.

Modified by Weston at 11:49 AM 3/13/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. I'll be ordering one later today.

AutoXer

Isn't the torsional rigidity what really helps the subframe from tearing? I'm guessing with my springrates a small plate setup like that may be enough to distribute the stress, but I'm not quite comfortable risking my subframe.

rockdude14

ya BSQ is just to mount

it wont stop subframe tearout

http://www.modacar.com/product....html

this might be popular this season
it seems to have some lateral bracing and not violate the rules
does anybody have any information on this
i googled and searched here and cat find anything


Modified by rockdude14 at 8:00 PM 3/13/2006

Shmeek

The big question on the ST bar, can I get the brace without the sway bar and will bigger bars than the ST 19mm bar fit it? And as Xer said, will any of these actually help strengthen the sub frame?

Honda318dx

adding stiffer rear springs will help it from happening again, what spring rates do you currently have?

ronald55555

isnt the stress on the subframe in a lifting/twisting fashion? the bar is always pushing the bushing up or down, since the bushing is offset from the subframe, there's torsional force on the subframe. And it's always in the opposite direction on each side. I dont see any major force from side to side, so how would pushing apart/pulling together the subframe(most tie bars) help? The only thing that would help is a solid connecting member between the sway bar mounting locations(which is exactly what is not allowed in sts/sp), instead of the st or srr ones where the tie bar is bolted on.

essex

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ronald55555 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">isnt the stress on the subframe in a lifting/twisting fashion? the bar is always pushing the bushing up or down, since the bushing is offset from the subframe, there's torsional force on the subframe. And it's always in the opposite direction on each side. I dont see any major force from side to side, so how would pushing apart/pulling together the subframe(most tie bars) help? The only thing that would help is a solid connecting member between the sway bar mounting locations(which is exactly what is not allowed in sts/sp), instead of the st or srr ones where the tie bar is bolted on.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The bar tries to pull back on the subframe ripping it from the inside out

Weston

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya BSQ is just to mount

it wont stop subframe tearout
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, yes and no. It doesn't really act as a brace, but it prevents subframe tearout by mounting the bar properly. I just checked mine an hour ago... it still looks great, after over 3 years, 60k miles, 22 road course adventures, 1 oval course event, and 20-30 autocrosses. I've run it on stock suspension, 276 lbs/in + KYB AGX, and 450 lbs/in + Koni Yellow.

Circuit Star-29

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya BSQ is just to mount

it wont stop subframe tearout


Modified by rockdude14 at 8:00 PM 3/13/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have any experience with it yourself? Doesn't sound like it...I've been running my 23mm for over a year...NO PROBLEMS....

chjkingme

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rockdude14 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya BSQ is just to mount

it wont stop subframe tearout

http://www.modacar.com/product....html

this might be popular this season
it seems to have some lateral bracing and not violate the rules
does anybody have any information on this
i googled and searched here and cat find anything


Modified by rockdude14 at 8:00 PM 3/13/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>


Not to rain on any parades here, but how is that any more legal than the Comptech or ASR pieces?

rockdude14

the thread i linked to most seem to think its ok
(no official word afaik)

but it seems to be ok because it only connects in one place on both sides where

where as comptech uses three bolts on each side
i personally think the new rule is dumb maybe it will get changed i hope

my bad on the BSQ i was thinking of somthing else

chjkingme

Oh, yeah...went over that thread again and I guess I just kicked a fairly dead horse. Touche.

...So does that tie bar mount behind the bottom of the D-bracket or not?

Shmeek

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">adding stiffer rear springs will help it from happening again, what spring rates do you currently have?</TD></TR></TABLE>

H&R Sports, from what I can find they're only 276lbs/in. The car is daily driven. A lot. And I'm getting too old for the bumppitty everyday rides.

lastturn

I just picked up this little jem right here.