dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Come on doooood its his opinion...everyone has one.
Respect that at least.
SP does have its flaws and it has an appetite for eating cars.
Thats all he is saying.

exgr

I was just trying to see from his POV... did I expanded it wrong? iono... not disrespecting... SP is known to eat cars any time the driver disrespect it.

I have a story about SP eating a pro's car. :-) and I hope Paul don't get mad at me but telling hahaha... About 2004 or so I instruct a lot at Golden Gate Audi Club. Stasis Engineering used to be at SP. They moved East few years ago... Paul Lambert, President of Stasis Engineering. I've known him for few years via. Audi Club. In one GGAC event, he brought out the Audi A4 World Challenge car. I asked him to give me a ride in it. During our first lap, warming up... he wasn't really paying full attention. He kinda goes a little faster than he should have in cold tires and he loops it in T9 and we go *** backwards side ways straight into the tire wall on the right side. The whole left side of the car is slams into the tire wall. Luckily it was all low speed sub 25 mph so no structural damage but the body work was jacked up. And in all honestly I saw it coming before he lost it as he was going a bit fast in the condition (wet damp track, 1st lap out). I didn't say anything because I figure he was a pro, the car was AWD. It was just simple carelessness on his part.

Paul has hundreds if not thousands of laps at SP and he's intimately familiar with it. This just goes to show that even for such a high level guy if you have a attention lapse at SP, it can easily make you pay.

rice_classic

Please don't confuse my lack of desire to "race" at Infineon as hate. It isn't. I remember growing up, having a dad from California tell me all the great races at SP and Laguna and so on but as an adult, as a racer and instructor, when I looked at SP/Infineon from my own objective point of view I see it differently.

My logic is thus: If I'm a shoe-string budget racer who races while accepting the fact that if I ball up my car during an event, I'm OK with that but I understand doing so means I don't get to go racing for a couple years as funding and time for aren't unlimited for me. I always consider level of risk and I feel Infineon presents risk unnecessarily due to it's design and layout and at a great degree in which I'm willing to accept at this point in time. Thus it comes in third for me as a race-track, behind Laguna and T-Hill.

My comments perfectly carry over to the Norschliefe and Monaco. The Monaco GP is the most boring race for me on the F1 calendar (not retarded, just boring) and the Nordschliefe is something I'd love to drive on but not race on with my current level of financial commitment and risk. the Nurburgring GP track is pretty damn safe and I would race there.


At the end of the day. I don't live in California, I've only driven the track in Forza 4 and this is all arm-chair pontificating. However, if I lived in Sonoma and Infineon was my home track I'd probably be there as much as I could be and all my existing arguments/opinions would be invalidated.

exgr

r u serious? you've never been on SP?! bwahahaha... i'm mean, how can you comment on a track that you haven't been on. that's pretty crazy man... as a matter of fact, you ARE hating at SP, the ring, and Monaco... but who cares, you are entitled to hate it. :-)

nsxforme

Laguna sounds a lot like Lime Rock out East - relatively short, easy to learn but tough to squeeze that last second out of it. I love going to the Glen, Tremblant and Monticello for multiple days but at Lime Rock, even though I still like it, I feel that a day is enough.

exgr

@ Infineon I got some Brazilian has-been dude to sign the NSX today. ;-) He was mentored by my favorite driver Senna.

exgr

Cool!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...SP411NCFPB.DTL

Formula One great Barrichello at Infineon practice

One of the world's greatest race car drivers came to Northern California this past week and compared our hometown track to some of the best circuits in the world.

That's right. Rubens Barrichello, the world-famous 19-year veteran of Formula One racing, took a few laps around Infineon Speedway on Saturday in one of this year's brand-new Indy cars.

Afterward, he said the road course compared favorably with legendary places like England's Donington Park and Belgium's Circuit de Spa-Francorchamp.

"It's pretty similar to the great tracks we have over there," said Barrichello, who is hoping to race in the IndyCar Series for the first time this season. "I had a great feeling with the Infineon track. It's straightforward. You know when to brake. But it's hard to know when to turn."

Barrichello was joined on the track Saturday by IndyCar regulars Marco Andretti, Ryan Briscoe, Will Power and J.R. Hildebrand. Hundreds of Bay Area racing fans came out, as well, to take advantage of the informal day of practice laps on the track where the Indy Grand Prix of Sonoma will be run on Aug. 26. The drivers gathered in the winner's circle at lunch to talk a little racing and discuss the new cars.

Andretti said the new Indy cars this year are a lot lighter. "Everything's different," said Mario Andretti's grandson. "There's a lot of learning going on."

Barrichello drew the most attention on the afternoon, with fans swarming around him for autographs and pictures. He's hoping to join fellow Brazilian Tony Kanaan on the Bay Area-based KV Racing Technology team. All he has to do is raise about $6 million in sponsorship by next week.

Kanaan joked about the pickle he put his friend in, asking him to join up on short notice. "I invited him to the party. Then I charged him for the catering."

This article appeared on page B - 3 of the San Francisco Chronicle



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz1nh5udeVs

jdmspoonitr

iTrader: (1)

I adjusted this quote a bit...

But yes as an amateur I feel the walls make me mentally dial back at least a 10th during the higher speed stuff. But you can easily wreck at a track with lots of runoff too. I've seen a hatch roll on the inside of T6/T7 at Thill. Also seen more than a handful loop their cars into the wall on the straight.

nsxforme

Leaving the pavement is rarely a good option but walls are very intimidating. I'd rather take my chances in the runoff area if it comes down to choosing one or the other

Austin

Sears Point is a lot friendlier after they redid part of the course a few years back. Before the change the entire 8A/8B section with the tight walls, and the front straight with a wet track(no runoff for water, and you drove across the drag strip, which the transition from normal pavement to water repelling rubber was always interesting). The only part of the track that I'm still a tad hesitant on is the T9/T10 portion.

I really like Sears Point, it's a fairly technical track, that's quite exciting. Thunderhill is a better track for beginners though, as it does allow a lot more flexibility for those "learning moments"

MBellRacing

Everyone needs to nut up. It's still hard to kill yourself at Infineon (now named Sonoma Raceway, btw... all our track cars have new stickers). That said, it is a dangerous track relative to many other in California. Watkins Glen, on the other hand, is much like Sonoma, whiners don't need to drive on it. It's the same argument for motorcycles: if you're not willing to pay in risk for the fun, then opt out. I drive at Sonoma multiple times a month, have crashed there once during a time attack practice, and just kept going. It was a mechanical failure, but essentially my fault for not doing my homework. Did I get hurt? Yes, I broke my ankle. Fine. Back in the day this would have been a pretty clean break from a 90mph-0mph impact head-on. Any lapse in concentration is going to cause an issue. If you DON'T go off and damage something you've just been lucky. Think about it. Yes they've lined this track with walls. Good. It keeps people in check. Quite honestly, during track days I've coached I see less offs here than at places like Buttonwillow. In my opinion, this track is building good drivers the way the Ring has. At places like THill and Buttonwillow I see people making silly mistakes, tossing cars one way or the next, no more punishment than a slap on the wrist, no instruction otherwise. They then go back out and make more useless mistakes with the same consequential results: dirty tires. They aren't learning anything. They never advance in anything. You know where nearly every single one of the Jim Russell/SimRaceway drivers whom all have thousands of laps around Infineon have wound up? All in Grand-Am or ALMS, all getting paychecks. I'd say the track regulars are probably the most common pro racing demographic currently. Where an extremely small group of people can earn a salary from racing, most of our instructors are doing so. I'm not saying this boastfully, but maybe our little oasis from legal (and literal) padding has created a place for many drivers that can learn to do better than most learning at places with lots of "off". Take what you will from it, but I think this track is the ultimate training location for someone serious about getting into the sport or being better at it.

slammed_93_hatch

Actually you're wrong about the drag-strip, and business park forced construction of walls...

The course is MUCH better then is used to be. I think 1999 or 2001 is when much of the upgrades improvements where done...

But the section you are talking about used to be much much much worse, and the S's had a hill that was notorious for kiling cars.

Here is a good video of Sears Point front the early 90s, you can see the hill drivers left as you enter the Ss, also note the K rail around the Ss...

Also note the business bar is absent, the the amount of track you have at the "track out" spot for turn 10 is about the same as it is now.

http://youtu.be/FuGMRCCXo2I

I started going to Sears point in 1989, and I ALWAYS remember it being a very "dangerous" track, with little to no run off room.

exgr

http://usa.ferrarichallenge.com/cont...jnloU.facebook

Ferrari giving out complimentary tickets for this weekend. Awesome for the locals. You get to see the 458 Challenge cars and the XX cars!!

exgr

Ohh, you were one of the Jim Russell grads? I didn't know that. Cool. I was thinking about their MTP program long long time ago... but didn't commit. There are indeed many great success stories coming from there.

MBellRacing

I actually didn't graduate from their program... I actually didn't do it. I went racing and then started working there as an instructor. Many of our grads become instructors, nearly ALL of our instructors are paid professional drivers. As I said, rare demographic.

slammed_93_hatch

another good video (incar) to show you how the track used to be

http://youtu.be/KYFKIQgpznI

rice_classic

Point in case.

MBellRacing

What? Now you're arguing that you liked it MORE dangerous?

I see a few differences in the track. Mainly the walls surrounding T9 and the giant hill on the outside of T8a. Everything else looks similar as far as safety. I would say most of the additional walls put up over the years are to protect the spectators, not necessarily to keep the drivers out of harm's way. That said, I think they also help keep the cars out of places that may get them in trouble.

exgr

It's a bit safer now for sure. Before the revamp there were several places if you went off the track, the car would easily sustain major damage. Now there are decent amount of run off rooms which you can actually go 4 off and be okay but the walls are close enough it makes everyone think twice before trying to shave the last few 10th off...

MBellRacing

This is true. We have done HUNDREDS of Audi R8 programs and never had one hit a wall... riddle me that.

SCoupe 5sp

interesting, better than I can say, what's the damage deductible / waiver look like?

rice_classic

What I meant to say is "Case in point". I apologize for the momentary dyslexia.

I am saying that the old footage proved my point. I race on several tracks here that are super dangerous but they're working within certain confines, restrictions blah blah blah, and have, over the years taken steps to improve safety just like Infineon.

The point I was originally trying to make in my original post had nothing to do specifically with the track but the inception of it. Going out in the middle of nowhere with vast open spaces to build your track...and then line it with walls. This thinking was stupid, I hold firm to that belief but I feel I am justified as the levels of safety in motor racing in the 1960's were almost non-existant. So why not build a track in BFE and then make it dangerous? (rhetorical) Many tracks were like this, many have been revamped to be made safer (Infineon being one of them). It was a simple comment, one I didn't think would spark any debate... but now we're here.

Now I'm sure Mr. Ghetto is going to take this personally, again and come to the "rescue" of Infineon, again. Oh well, that's just a risk I'm going to have to take. (I bet the irony of that last sentence will be lost).

MBellRacing

I'm not 100%, but I know for most of our schools it's $500 for small incidental damage and $1000 for things like a write-off. For the racing school it's essentially parts cost to repair the $300,000 Lola F3 car with a maximum of I think $75k.

Classic-- I understand and agree. The oddity that the track is "in the middle of nowhere" is interesting for the time, but it seems all over California this was the case, even in the 50s and 60s. Laguna is REALLY out in the middle of nowhere, Willows is in the desert, Riverside was in, well, it's Riverside... etc. Comparatively, Sonoma isn't all that middle of nowhere being just 30 minutes from a very large city. It's not a street course, but that's okay. I have an 55 minute commute in the morning and I come from the Peninsula south of S.F.

I think the only reason Sonoma doesn't just fall victim to what insurance companies would want and remove all walls and create miles of run-off is because it would put the place out of business. They'd have to jump through SO many hoops to do any construction in the first place, then they'd have to level all the iconic hills to do much with it or remove most of the spectator areas. I think it is one of the best tracks I've been to and I feel honored working there year-round. Once more however, I am also very glad they have the walls, have the blind corners, have acceptable runoff in places it's truly needed. Besides, we're all spoiled here in the USA-- WTCC is going there this year and the only addition they requested was a curb on the outside of the braking zone between T2 and T3 which is notorious for breaking wheels. I'm sure they'll line the track with tires as they do with NASCAR, as well.