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If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

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If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

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Old 02-23-2010, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by Andrie Hartanto View Post
Scott,

during testing, you'll have to be honest with yourself. ...
I'll try...but do I have to give up the whole "I"m the greatest" thing too?

Scott, who has screwed up a few things harmlessly enough to learn curious truths about the sensitivity of his seat of the pants...noticing something is one thing, but figuring it out can be another...
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Wanted to upload a pic of the production compliance bearing set. The bearing sleeve and bearing retainer are tack welded to the housing. I run the PCI setup in the rear and admire the quality of that part. Hopefully racers will find my parts to be at the same level. Sorry for the poor quality of the pic though. I need to get some professional product pics taken.
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

thoes look awesome , i like the chamfered inserts that ensure range of movement!
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

After reading on these PCI bushings I am curious as to how much they will help me get some rotation in my autox car. I am a tinkerer and always like trying new ways of getting the rotation out of my car. Is this dynamic toe in problem more high-speed transition related or would these help me get rid of that toe in with low speed as well? Thanks!
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

the first time i saw a compliance bushing (i had a bunch of ef's; no compliance bushing) i thought that needed to be spherical. it just screams bind. glad someone has made some.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Just curious.

Bushing is called a "compliance" bushing, presumably for a reason. With the spherical bearing, compliance is of course lost.

So is compliance necessary, or can it be removed at that point in the suspension?
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by descartesfool View Post
Just curious.

Bushing is called a "compliance" bushing, presumably for a reason. With the spherical bearing, compliance is of course lost.

So is compliance necessary, or can it be removed at that point in the suspension?
If you're not unloading the inside rear enough to lift it, you probably need compliance in the front LCA.

Scott, who does have a mean streak...
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Compliance is necessary on a street car for the purposes of reduction of NVH and I imagine to keep a car from being "darty" over bumps and other road imperfections. But I don't claim to be a suspension engineer. However, the results in testing on Zsolt's car were remarkable.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

What andrie was saying about the compliance not needing to be spherical is because the inner LCA and the compliance are in the same plan and both only operate on one axis which is the same.

So the SB in the compliance doesn't need any range of motion to not bind.

Brian from PCI was the first to point this out to me, and then I saw this to be true on my car.

It was easier to do the SB though.. As I don't know how you could do a bronze setup in there. Or derlin.

Building a sleeve and welding it into the bushing was easier, expensive but I knew what to do. (Made a set around 2006-2007)

The compliance bushing does what the raduis rod does on the EF/DA. It limit dynamic toe change under acceleration/braking/cornering. Just like the radius rod SB does.

I've been running mine since 06/07 love how it transformed the car, never had any issue either.

Be sure to tq and check the inner LCA and compliance often with a SB in those points.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Wanted to upload a pic of the production compliance bearing set. The bearing sleeve and bearing retainer are tack welded to the housing. I run the PCI setup in the rear and admire the quality of that part. Hopefully racers will find my parts to be at the same level. Sorry for the poor quality of the pic though. I need to get some professional product pics taken.
How much and where to buy?
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by Lo-Buck EF View Post
the first time i saw a compliance bushing (i had a bunch of ef's; no compliance bushing) i thought that needed to be spherical. it just screams bind. glad someone has made some.
In this case spherical definitely not needed. It is suppose to move only one pivot action or rotation. Thus why my comments on using delrin for this part for cheap and effective solution. Same case with front upper control arm. No need chamfer either, if it moves in that direction, you're in trouble

Nothing in the back of the civic can be delrin, though.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Oops, Jimmy already explained what I meant.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by SPiFF View Post
Nice parts. Not IT legal (and maybe not HC legal, but it has been a while since I looked at the rules). The sleeves are welded. The pics I have were of the first run hot out of the CNC machine.
The part I posted was the one for EK subframe which are different than the one for EG/DC (there are no housing for EK). I made the comment that yours looks similar to the one I built in 2006 when I used to ran my Civic with EG/DC subframe and I posted picture here back then. Mine was a lot rougher, yours is a lot nicer. I also experimented with offset hole to try to gain caster that way. But that creates its own problem as it makes the forward bearing pivot on different axis than the compliance bushing. I lost the pictures when my server crashed. But the part is still in the car that now owned by Graham Downey. I also built similar part for a few HC racers, among other Benny.

BTW Scott,
you'd love my new toy. check out my website
I saw that on some ALMS team, thought what a great idea and so I made one.

Last edited by Andrie Hartanto; 02-23-2010 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

I hate delrin. I personally think it is garbage and does not belong anywhere on a race car. But I admit that is a bias I have. But at the end of the day I would rather pay $210 for my setup or another like it, than nearly that much for some crappy plastic and bronze sleeve.

The other thing I have wondered about in terms of benefit of SBs is this. You can move the front suspension on my car up and down with one or two fingers with the shocks/springs out. This is not the case on a suspension with "high quality race plastic" like delrin. It can take 100+ ft/lbs of pressure to move it. Isn't freeing up the suspension itself an advantage? Plus aren't you making an assumption that the delrin setup is properly oriented in the same axis as the front pivot? Looking at the setup on Zsolt's car it seemed to me that it might not be a fluid movement throughout the range because of the way the delrin and bronze sleeve were oriented in the housing. I may be over thinking that but I know that the SB is going to move freely and without bind axially for the same price or a hair more than glorified recycled milk jug material. I like peace of mind.

P.S. I love the setup plates. My CNC guy just made those for Krohn Racing here in GA and I would love to make a set for my car.

Last edited by chrisb; 02-23-2010 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by Andrie Hartanto View Post
BTW Scott,
you'd love my new toy. check out my website
I saw that on some ALMS team, thought what a great idea and so I made one.
Hmmmm...nice. But do you have one of these?
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Wanted to upload a pic of the production compliance bearing set. The bearing sleeve and bearing retainer are tack welded to the housing. I run the PCI setup in the rear and admire the quality of that part. Hopefully racers will find my parts to be at the same level. Sorry for the poor quality of the pic though. I need to get some professional product pics taken.

I have these Spherical Compliance bushings for my car, I've just had too much work as of late to post up some pictures. I'll be posting some pictures when my life calms down a bit, and hopefully some good impressions from the Honda Challenge race that is scheduled this weekend at Sears Point.

Austin
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

For a car that see's about 99% street time and about 4-5 track days a year, would you guys recommend just sticking with OEM rubber for the RTA bushings?

-J
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

nope. i'd still rock pci's.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

^x2
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

I think the FLCA compliance replacement bushing should be made of Torlon. No more movement and no need to replace it once it's in there.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

Originally Posted by descartesfool View Post
In as well for info on the various front end bushings/bearings.

In terms of the RTA, I've been very happy with my Hardrace sphericals.
anyone else try them? i spoke to some west coasters that weren't so happy with them.
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

This thread is a golden nugget. Fast forward to 2016, now there appears to be at least 3 solid RTA bushings.

- ESM
- ASR
- PCI

Chris @ KPM continues to make awesome spherical kits for people but I don't believe he currently makes any RTA setup? I'll have to ask him... I'm going with KPM full sphericals on the delly and looks like I gotta pick one of the 3 for RTA bushing.

I actually have a set of brand new rubber Hardrace RTA bushing (not installed yet), and I think they do make solid ones too...
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: If you could be a Honda trailing arm bushing...what brand would you be?

I'm curious about Spiff's comment that his compliance bushings are not IT legal (from 2010). Was that then and this is now? As I peruse the current GCR (2017), it says bushing materials are unrestricted, so long as no modifications of the suspension component for their installation are required.

This makes me wonder if the bolt on RTA sphericals from Blox, PasswordJDM, PCI, and the like don't meet this requirement, as the RTA needs to be drilled to mount them. Any opinions?

I need to replace my 10 year old ES poly's and would like to go sphericals all around. Hardrace make's a nifty pillow block compliance joint, but I want to be legal.
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