Nate

come on now, do you some of you guys really think that since indy cars use honda V8's they are like anything close to the f1 v8's??? all the teams will have amazingly well put together v8's. I would like to say BMW is the one to watch out for but I have a good feeling that Mclearen Merc will be producing the hot engine for next year. Their new amazingly advanced Facilities will have been used for the full v8 development, and they will have the "Edge" per-say on the field in that regard. (my opinion) oh yeah and they have that thing called kimi, whom is freakishly fast.

Also Merc and Reno do not have to worry about chassis development as they are on the right track where BAR and Williams will need a completely new approach for next season. Not sure if you guys really know how bad the honda chassis was this year. I am amazed Button did as well as he did.

-nate (cannot wait till next season!)

Nishant

BAR did have a pretty crappy chasis, they said it themselves. I hope they build something better next year so they can be more competitive. I know the engine shouldn't be too hard for them

clayton bigsby

iTrader: (1)

i think Bar Honda will do better because Sato wont be there

Jj0o3eyY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pSI civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">british american tobaco made chassis huh? its the same people honda just bought out the rest of bats holdings in the team.</TD></TR></TABLE>

BAR stands for british american racing you idiot. and yes they did develop the chassis moron. lucky strike is their tobacco company. honda was their engine manufacter.

JonnyCoupe

British American is the parent company of the lucky strike brand tobacco brand. Buy a racing team and you tend to stick 'racing' at the end of the corporate name....

Funnily enough just like Red Bull RACING have

Powered by Honda

Vitantonio Liuzzi always seems to dress like the "stunna" of F1

Personally, I like Klein.

madhatter07

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Powered by Honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vitantonio Liuzzi always seems to dress like the "stunna" of F1

Personally, I like Klein.</TD></TR></TABLE>

HAHA yeah he does, he's total Euro Trash, but the kid can drive, he was the most dominant F3000 champion in the history of the series, I don't know what the competition was like though.

chris1866

I think that Ferrari will be back strong in 2006.
They usually don't bring their new car out until several races into the season, but they have already started development a few months ago, so they will have it in melbourne.

FERRARI WILL REIGN AGAIN!

Although that being said, i really am also a fan of JB and Honda, and i would like to see them have a strong season, wich i think is a distinct possibility

tincam84

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drewbie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">judging by the Chinese GP though, if renault had that engine all season, they could have been just as dominant as maclaren</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you are forgetting that engine only had to last 1 race. remember when alanso blew it up at the end of the race? I think the rest of the field, or most of them atleast, were still on thier suzuka engines. The mclarens were for sure.

Jj0o3eyY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter07 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I wish you would shut up lol, you don't know what the expletive you are talking about. British American Tobacco are the owners of Lucky Strike, when they went racing they changed the name of the sponsorship to British American RACING. Did you notice that they were branded with 555 logos in china? Thats the BAT tobacco brand in China. Learn your ****..... nublet.

To give my post validity, who do you think is better at Red Bull, Klein or Liuzzi, I like both but I'm leaning toward Liuzzi</TD></TR></TABLE>

BAR have their own freaking staff you idiot. their "staff" is what runs the god damn team. honda was only there to support them in engine development. the only time honda had any say what so ever in the freaking team was when they bought out have of bar. look on their god damn site. bar invited honda to be a part of their team back in 2000 when they needed engines. youre telling me that freaking honda develops the chassis AND engine for them? so youre telling me when honda supplied engines to jordan that they made jordans chassis also? no you freaking idiiot eddie jordan had his own engineers and they are the ones that did it. so do you knw what that means? its jordans chassis not hondas. just like its bar chassis and not hondas.

Jj0o3eyY

and for the person using redbull racing as part of his argument. youre saying that redbull is just a sponsership? cosworth supplies their engines. youre telling me cosworth makes their chassis also? next year ferrari is gonna supply them engines. you think ferrari is gonna make their chassis also? no redbull racing is a damn team. they develop everything within it. and they just ask for other engine supplies to supply them with an engine.

I SAY EH

Jj0o3eyY:

A quick lesson in F1:

BMW does not build chassis. Mercedes doesn't build chassis. Honda won't build chassis. Renault doesn't build chassis.

The teams build the chassis. About 10 years ago there were a group of engineers at a team called Tyrrell that built F1 chassis. That team was bought by British American Tobacco and renamed BAR. The same group of engineers built the chassis. Now Honda has bought the team, and changed the name to......wait for it.... Honda. IT WILL BE THE SAME GROUP OF ENGINEERS. They will have the same bosses. They will work in the same factory. The only difference is that the company they work for is now owned by Honda.

The same thing happened at Renault. There was a team called Benetton, they made chassis, they got engines from Renault. Then Renault bought the team. Then all of the engineers who had been working for Benetton took off their Benetton F1 shirts and put on Renault F1 shirts and, miracle of miracles, kept on building chassis.

The same thing happened at Jaguar. There was a team called Stewart F1. They were bought by Ford and renamed Jaguar F1. The same guys that had been building Stewart chassis then built Jaguar chassis. Then Red Bull bought the team, and the same people (in the same factory, with the same equipment, and the same computers, and all of the drawings of all the previous chassis) are now building Red Bull chassis.

You are wrong. Stop spouting off about it.

-Matt

Jj0o3eyY

im sorry but you must be kidding me. do you seriously think you are right? you know when honda bought out 45% of bar that they fired a lot of people on the team and brought in new people right? and you know plenty of the benetton guys left renault to follow schumacher in ferrari right? where do you think you get this information from? do you have a list of all the names within the team from all the years or something? or is it strictly based on what you think? of course they may decide to keep some of the guys but ill tell you this, everytime a team morphed into another, they were far from being the same team. and do you think i dont know bmw, mercedes dont build chassis'? they were engine suppliers for williams and mclaren. thats why hense theyre names conjoined to be williams bmw and mclaren mercedes. just like how it will redbull ferrari next year. and you dont think renault builds their own chassis now? they use to be an engine developer and supplier for other teams in the past but when they became their own team, yes guess what the RENAULT TEAM started their own chassis'. do you ever hear of any other manufacter when they refer to renaults chassis? no you dont all you hear is the r25 for this year, and yes it was made my renault. just now how it will be for honda next year. yes honda will develop their own chassis.

Jj0o3eyY

and youre telling me that when tyrell engineers worked under bar that bar didnt develop chassis'? that tyrell still developed them? even if its the same people, they work under bar now. which in turn means that bar developed the chassis, which in turn means that the chassis they designed was made my yes thats right BAR. and to be honest with you, i highly doubt everyone from tyrell worked for bar.

Jj0o3eyY

also when teams buy out others teams and they are under the exact same managment and engineers, how do you expect the team to improve? do you think when redbull, midland, and bmw bought out minardi, jordan, and sauber that they expect and want to remain where those teams where in the past? no theyll want to improve. theyll want to be the best. and how are they gonna do that if its the exact same team it was before? explain that to me.

Wht-Blk dc2

[QUOTE=I SAY EH]Jj0o3eyY:

A quick lesson in F1:

BMW does not build chassis. Mercedes doesn't build chassis. Honda won't build chassis. Renault doesn't build chassis.


i have a question, where they hell u get this info from my friend ? it was williams bmw for the past years but next year bmw is leaving williams, you're saying williams is still gonna build their chassis's ? how about no, bmw wants to split off into their own team developing everything in house because of the lack of competetiveness williams has had. honda wont build chassis's ? so what about the 60's ? guess what, they built their own chassis and ran their own team and i dont need to get into too much detail in this since i just wanted to clarrify the part where u said "honda wont built chassis's". as for renault, yes, benetton became renault, but like joey said, not everyone that was with benetton stayed in the team when it became renault, renault is renault, r24, r25 and so on ... RENAULT's own buddy. get your info straight before you speak out of your ***

Wht-Blk dc2

this is regarding to pSI's remarks ...

HONDA is 100% a factory team next year, just like the earlier years (such as the 60's). you're right about BAT started BAR and that's so that they can be the majority stock holder over the team. BAT bought out reynard which is the chassis developer and named it BAR. so if BAR owns reynards, that means BAR built the chassis's buddy, Honda returned to f1 only as an engine supplier. now, they want to return as a factory team and hopes of winning the world title as HONDA F1 ...

I SAY EH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wht-Blk dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i have a question, where they hell u get this info from my friend ? it was williams bmw for the past years but next year bmw is leaving williams, you're saying williams is still gonna build their chassis's ? how about no, bmw wants to split off into their own team developing everything in house because of the lack of competetiveness williams has had. honda wont build chassis's ? so what about the 60's ? guess what, they built their own chassis and ran their own team and i dont need to get into too much detail in this since i just wanted to clarrify the part where u said "honda wont built chassis's". as for renault, yes, benetton became renault, but like joey said, not everyone that was with benetton stayed in the team when it became renault, renault is renault, r24, r25 and so on ... RENAULT's own buddy. get your info straight before you speak out of your ***</TD></TR></TABLE>

BMW Williams: For the past several years BMW has been supplying engines to Williams. BMW also owned some stake in the team (not sure how much, maybe just some kind of trade of equity for engines). Now BMW is buying Sauber. SO, the people that had been building Sauber chassis will still be building chassis, but they will be called BMW chassis instead of Sauber chassis. It will be the same people. In the same factory. Their first cars will be an evolution of the current Sauber chassis. BMW is BUYING THE SAUBER TEAM. The only difference in chassis construction from Sauber in 2005 and BMW in 2006 is that, presumably, the same people, now working for BMW, will be better funded.

Sure, in the '60s Honda may have built their own chassis and engines. But in 2006, Honda will own a company in England, which is now called BAR, but will be called Honda soon, that will build chassis. This company will be the same company that built the 2005 BAR chassis. Same engineers. Same factory.

As for Renault, MOST of the same people that ran Benetton (like Flavio for example) now make up the Renault team. Mild Seven (whatever tobacco co that is) sponsor the team that Flavio manages. It would be ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT than if it was owned by a car company (Renault) and clothing co (Benetton) or a drink company (Red Bull). The fact that Honda builds cars (and not some other thing) has nothing to do with their F1 team. In 10 years when Honda gets sick of F1, they will sell their team to someone else, who may or may not build cars, and it will STILL BE THE SAME ENGINEERS BUILDING F1 cars.

Get it?

-Matt

Jj0o3eyY

thanks wht-black dc2. first of all i must correct you on one thing I SAY EH. being better funded does not have much to do with how good a team is. toyota has the largest budget in f1, and yet they cant even come close to the top runners. the engineers and team managment is what makes the team what it is, not the factory they work in, not the name, not the money. so in order for a new team to improve, it must have better engineers and team managments. this argument is going no where. the topic that started all this was psi challenging my argument that bar doesnt develop their own chassis. but do you not agree I SAY EH that BAR, even if the engineers taht worked for them are the previous engineers of the other teams, that BAR THE TEAM, built the BAR chassis since 2000? we both have our arguments, and I SAY EH probably has the best points out of every other person in here. so everyone else that doesnt know **** about f1 needs to shut the hell up. and yes madhatter07, you really need to put a dick in your mouth cause you dont know ****, but you talk **** very well.


Modified by Jj0o3eyY at 7:05 PM 10/23/2005


Modified by Jj0o3eyY at 7:06 PM 10/23/2005


Modified by Jj0o3eyY at 7:17 PM 10/23/2005

taney

haha .. mad hater .. the name fits the person ..

h-t heads will never know **** about F1 .. they don't know anything about professional racing .. all they do know is what the hype is .. what jdm is .. and what builds a lot of horsepower .. h-t kids love to give and .. and talk **** about the least they know of .. it is just a new group of people that hate rice and creating a new kind of rice .. these kids call themselves racers when they freeway race .. seen a few drag clips .. and maybe seen some auto x videos .. but they don't know anything about racing .. they just think having a car that produces high numbers and talking **** makes them the best racer in the world ..

don't waste your time arguing with these h-t dumbasses .. there's another forum out there to discuss F1 and we all know of it ..

Nishant

i don't see much about 06 here, just alot of bickering...how about we get back to the subject of the thread

Outrun

Tyrell's last year was under ownership of BAR. However, the design philosophy of the last Tyrell did not carry over to the BAR001. That car was designed by a team led by Malcolm Oastler, who was then a designer at Reynard Racing Cars. Oastler's most successful cars were the Reynard RxxI series of Champ Cars.

British American is not the name of Lucky Strike's parent company. It is BAT, British American Tobacco. BAR is the name given to the franchise formerly known as Tyrell Racing Organization when a consortium led by Craig Pollock (and money from BAT) bought the Tyrell team. Though designed and built by Reynard, the intellectual properties of the BAR001 belong to BAR. All the companies involved agreed to it...it all boils down to money. Reynard was paid with BAT money to build a car for the BAR team.

Renault builds cars and engines. The franchise itself was Benetton, the name of the clothing company that bought the team formerly known as Toleman. Renault is a chassis builder? Well, they own the design and probably the facilities that build the actual car, so it's known as a Renault.

Basically, most things stay the same except for the name and where the money goes.

When McLaren-Honda switched to V12s, the V10s were badged as Mugens. Honda wasn't spending money developing the V10s. Mugen was. Maybe that's why the engines were called Mugens.

F1 is all about the money. That's why a Sauber has a Petronas engine (a Ferrari engine with a different name on the cam cover), Prost had an Acer engine (a Ferrari engine with a different name on the cam cover), and Williams, Benetton, and BAR had the same engine (Renault RS9) that powered Jacques Villeneuve to the '97 championship in 1999, though only Williams and BAR were considered to have the same "Supertec" engine because Benetton was powered by "Playlife" engines, though the same engines had the same "Mecachrome" name in 1998.

Confusing, no?

drewbie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chris1866 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that Ferrari will be back strong in 2006.

FERRARI WILL REIGN AGAIN!

Although that being said, i really am also a fan of JB and Honda, and i would like to see them have a strong season, wich i think is a distinct possibility</TD></TR></TABLE>


I believe you have said it.

In my opinion, the entire 2005 season was a conspiracy. (politics!!!)

Lets face it, Ferrari had to lose sometime...so why not blame it on the rule changes?

And since Ferrari was the only competative team to run bridgestones, you can blame it on the tires too.

Thats one reason I am sure some of the teams are switching to Bridgestone next year (red bull..)

Ferrari were trying a lot of new things just because they had a season to throw away...watch out for Ferrari next year

.David

Do any of you know if they are going to keep the one engine for 2 race weekend and one set of tires per race distance rules? or has this even been decided yet?

MSisgod

Ok so here it is first and foremost I'm just going to post once because this is going no where, truth be told, F1 is a sport for fans and should only be discuss by those who actually know what they are talking about. with that said, the only three ppl in this thread that actually know what they are talking about are; Jj0o3eyY, Wht-Blk dc2, and outrun....with that said....PSI civic, madhatter07 and I SAY EH...if there was ever a god you are only capable of speaking out of your fat, horrendous mothers ****...your words are irrelevant to the whole conversation...everyone else that’s posting redundant conversations please for all mankind sake do not procreate for your generation shall be just as dumb or if not worst of then you are.

Shall we begin lads??? first of Honda WILL indeed become there own team...since its evident that none of you go to school, let me give u a quick tour of the business system...if a team is bought out IT AUTOMATICALLY BECOMES THE NEW TEAM...ITS NOT OPERATING UNDER A NEW NAME w/ the same employees, the new owners can chose to keep who ever they wish you *****. THE MAJORITY STOCK HOLDER can do what every there little hearts desire. Hence company 'buy-out' and 'acquisitions' and 'mergers' the one w/ more power can do what ever they wish.

BAT is the father company, Lucky Strike and 555 are there subsidiary company and thus BAR is a separate entity that BAT wishes to enter in F1, Red Bull makes drinks, the CEO is a god when it comes to marketing, and what better way then to market w/ a bloody car. Tyrell was team that became, Prost GP (headed by Alain Prost) that later became Renault....if you haven’t notice Renault F1 is a FULL 100% COMPANY...THEY DO MAKE THERE OWN CHASSIS...as yes sorry to break all the hearts of you 'emotional characters' but HONDA IS BECOMING A 100% TEAM...thus making and designing there own chassis...all the tools and equipments WERE that of BAR but no longer in 2006...I

ITS NOW IN THE POSESSION OF HONDA, now and again a full F1 team, (much like the mid to late 60's w/ there RA line up of gp cars)...Just like Ferrari, Toyota, BMW w/ the 'buy-out' of Sauber (sigh*) and last but surely not least, HONDA you bloody ***** HONDA. Teams like McLaren-Mercades are in partnership, they are titled w/ the chassis supplier first then the engine manufacture. Teams w/ just one name that has nothing to do w/ the automotive industry like Red Bull Racing and Jordan (soon to be Midland) are there own chassis designer and they do ‘happily’ get there engines from practically anyone who will agree to supply them.

Again its evident that no one here really watches F1 save the few that I gave praises to earlier, if you wish to speak about some thing that is a fact, have some bloody validity in your posts, ACTUALLY go obtain some info directly from the source http://www.f1.com or barhonda.com or fia.com...when you wake up from your miserable existence that you call life at 5pm at night, jerk off to the **** that you store in your computer, and go out w/ ur 'tricked out' cars for a fun night street racing, come home to read something that someone else said and reiterated the same wrong message and actually (lord Jesus) think you know anything if at that??? The only conversations that you should join are those of body kits, under glow kits, burn outs, and which Camry with the mother and her darling children you ‘smoked’ the night previous. You my friend are a **** who deserves nothing better then to return to your mother’s uterus in her comfy womb. You speak of such things that are befitting of a dung Beatle…the food that my body processed which comes out in the form of excrements have more validity then your words. Please end yourselves.

That is all, have a pleasant day and GO TO SCHOOL, when they tell you drugs are bad for you THEY WERE NOT LYING. MS shall return, Honda will do good, and F1 will continue as long as there are ‘true’ fans. In closing I would like to leave you with a little quote of my own, hopefully you will take this as a ‘guideline’ and save everyone headaches.

‘Speak only of what is of your own and know, not that of what you have read and heard’