Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
03-19-2012, 03:36 PM
#53
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Here is an OEM caliper style, 2" round tapered to a 1" wide oval on the end that is near the rotor.
03-20-2012, 06:47 AM
#54
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Some fundamental errors on air flow here. The hose needs to be as big a diameter as possible and the number of bends needs to be minimized, as does the length of hose. You also want to use smooth pipe where you can rather than hose.
The cooling is basically related to the mass of air flowing. That means it is related to the amount of flow in cubic feet per minute, or cfm. The amount of cfm that flows is dependent on the pressure difference between the inlet on the front of the car and the outlet at the rotor end, and the flow resistance. Thus you want to minimize flow resistance. Flow resistance depends on duct diameter, number and radius of bends, flow resistance of hose or duct. You add up all the flow resistances (they are in series) and that gives you volumetric flow which depends on (pressure difference)/(flow resistance). 2" hose and fittings have a much higher flow resistance than 3" hose and fittings, and thus will give you much less flow. It turns out for steady flow in a straight pipe, that volumetric air flow depends on the diameter^3. So a 4" pipe will flow 8 times more air than a 2" pipe for the same pressure drop, length and flow velocity, and a 3" pipe will flow over 3 times more than a 2' pipe. See a calculator here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/da...ion-d_646.html
If you work out the flow equation using that D'Arcy-Weisbach equation, with some example values
Q = volumetric flow rate (m3/s)
deltaP = pressure drop (N/m2) = 85.4
d = pipe diameter (m) = 0.05 & 0.075 m ( 2" & 3 ")
lamdba = friction coefficient (dimensionless) = 0.019
l = pipe length (m) = 1 m (40")
rho = air density (kg/m3) = 1.2 kg/m3
v = air velocity (m/s) = 19.35 m/s ( 43 mph)
Volumetric flow Q = (pi/2) * (deltaP * d^3)/(lambda * l * rho * v)
= 0.038 m3/s ( 80.5 cfm) for 2" pipe and
= 0.128 m3/s ( 271 cfm ) for 3" pipe or 3.375 times more flow (ratio of 3^3/2^3)
Of course it's a little more complicated than that for an actual brake duct system, but the idea is the same.
Other thing you want is to put the air inlet on a point of maximum pressure to maximize flow. Of course when a 3" hose won't fit, a 2" hose is better than none, but not remotely as good as a 3" hose.
The cooling is basically related to the mass of air flowing. That means it is related to the amount of flow in cubic feet per minute, or cfm. The amount of cfm that flows is dependent on the pressure difference between the inlet on the front of the car and the outlet at the rotor end, and the flow resistance. Thus you want to minimize flow resistance. Flow resistance depends on duct diameter, number and radius of bends, flow resistance of hose or duct. You add up all the flow resistances (they are in series) and that gives you volumetric flow which depends on (pressure difference)/(flow resistance). 2" hose and fittings have a much higher flow resistance than 3" hose and fittings, and thus will give you much less flow. It turns out for steady flow in a straight pipe, that volumetric air flow depends on the diameter^3. So a 4" pipe will flow 8 times more air than a 2" pipe for the same pressure drop, length and flow velocity, and a 3" pipe will flow over 3 times more than a 2' pipe. See a calculator here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/da...ion-d_646.html
If you work out the flow equation using that D'Arcy-Weisbach equation, with some example values
Q = volumetric flow rate (m3/s)
deltaP = pressure drop (N/m2) = 85.4
d = pipe diameter (m) = 0.05 & 0.075 m ( 2" & 3 ")
lamdba = friction coefficient (dimensionless) = 0.019
l = pipe length (m) = 1 m (40")
rho = air density (kg/m3) = 1.2 kg/m3
v = air velocity (m/s) = 19.35 m/s ( 43 mph)
Volumetric flow Q = (pi/2) * (deltaP * d^3)/(lambda * l * rho * v)
= 0.038 m3/s ( 80.5 cfm) for 2" pipe and
= 0.128 m3/s ( 271 cfm ) for 3" pipe or 3.375 times more flow (ratio of 3^3/2^3)
Of course it's a little more complicated than that for an actual brake duct system, but the idea is the same.
Other thing you want is to put the air inlet on a point of maximum pressure to maximize flow. Of course when a 3" hose won't fit, a 2" hose is better than none, but not remotely as good as a 3" hose.
03-20-2012, 07:03 AM
#55
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Some fundamental errors on air flow here. The hose needs to be as big a diameter as possible and the number of bends needs to be minimized, as does the length of hose. You also want to use smooth pipe where you can rather than hose.
The cooling is basically related to the mass of air flowing. That means it is related to the amount of flow in cubic feet per minute, or cfm. The amount of cfm that flows is dependent on the pressure difference between the inlet on the front of the car and the outlet at the rotor end, and the flow resistance. Thus you want to minimize flow resistance. Flow resistance depends on duct diameter, number and radius of bends, flow resistance of hose or duct. You add up all the flow resistances (they are in series) and that gives you volumetric flow which depends on (pressure difference)/(flow resistance). 2" hose and fittings have a much higher flow resistance than 3" hose and fittings, and thus will give you much less flow. It turns out for steady flow in a straight pipe, that volumetric air flow depends on the diameter^3. So a 4" pipe will flow 8 times more air than a 2" pipe for the same pressure drop, length and flow velocity, and a 3" pipe will flow over 3 times more than a 2' pipe. See a calculator here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/da...ion-d_646.html
If you work out the flow equation using that D'Arcy-Weisbach equation, with some example values
Q = volumetric flow rate (m3/s)
deltaP = pressure drop (N/m2) = 85.4
d = pipe diameter (m) = 0.05 & 0.075 m ( 2" & 3 ")
lamdba = friction coefficient (dimensionless) = 0.019
l = pipe length (m) = 1 m (40")
rho = air density (kg/m3) = 1.2 kg/m3
v = air velocity (m/s) = 19.35 m/s ( 43 mph)
Volumetric flow Q = (pi/2) * (deltaP * d^3)/(lambda * l * rho * v)
= 0.038 m3/s ( 80.5 cfm) for 2" pipe and
= 0.128 m3/s ( 271 cfm ) for 3" pipe or 3.375 times more flow (ratio of 3^3/2^3)
Of course it's a little more complicated than that for an actual brake duct system, but the idea is the same.
Other thing you want is to put the air inlet on a point of maximum pressure to maximize flow. Of course when a 3" hose won't fit, a 2" hose is better than none, but not remotely as good as a 3" hose.
The cooling is basically related to the mass of air flowing. That means it is related to the amount of flow in cubic feet per minute, or cfm. The amount of cfm that flows is dependent on the pressure difference between the inlet on the front of the car and the outlet at the rotor end, and the flow resistance. Thus you want to minimize flow resistance. Flow resistance depends on duct diameter, number and radius of bends, flow resistance of hose or duct. You add up all the flow resistances (they are in series) and that gives you volumetric flow which depends on (pressure difference)/(flow resistance). 2" hose and fittings have a much higher flow resistance than 3" hose and fittings, and thus will give you much less flow. It turns out for steady flow in a straight pipe, that volumetric air flow depends on the diameter^3. So a 4" pipe will flow 8 times more air than a 2" pipe for the same pressure drop, length and flow velocity, and a 3" pipe will flow over 3 times more than a 2' pipe. See a calculator here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/da...ion-d_646.html
If you work out the flow equation using that D'Arcy-Weisbach equation, with some example values
Q = volumetric flow rate (m3/s)
deltaP = pressure drop (N/m2) = 85.4
d = pipe diameter (m) = 0.05 & 0.075 m ( 2" & 3 ")
lamdba = friction coefficient (dimensionless) = 0.019
l = pipe length (m) = 1 m (40")
rho = air density (kg/m3) = 1.2 kg/m3
v = air velocity (m/s) = 19.35 m/s ( 43 mph)
Volumetric flow Q = (pi/2) * (deltaP * d^3)/(lambda * l * rho * v)
= 0.038 m3/s ( 80.5 cfm) for 2" pipe and
= 0.128 m3/s ( 271 cfm ) for 3" pipe or 3.375 times more flow (ratio of 3^3/2^3)
Of course it's a little more complicated than that for an actual brake duct system, but the idea is the same.
Other thing you want is to put the air inlet on a point of maximum pressure to maximize flow. Of course when a 3" hose won't fit, a 2" hose is better than none, but not remotely as good as a 3" hose.
03-20-2012, 07:57 AM
#56
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
he said "where possible." I think his point was simply that if you can get away with larger hose/inlet/etc you're still getting more flow to the brake then with smaller hose. Not that there was anything wrong with the stuff posted above. Just that some ideas were mislead.
03-20-2012, 08:01 AM
#57
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Maybe my paper towel tube vs straw test lied? On a true race car that is not a production vehicle this may be right, but as mentioned one would need blowers to supply the proper cfm because the speed of the air will slow down by the time it reaches the rotor with such large volume. More cfm yes, but with much less velocity unless a blower is utilized. Velocity was mentioned in that post about tube size.
I also wonder how people here can fit 3 and 4" hose under the frame rail without hitting the crank pulley or the tires eating the hose while turning in the paddock. I speak from experience not some calculations. 95% of the people on here would only be able to fit 2" hose and maybe 2.5 will fit in some instances, 3" will not fit without serious rubbing and 4 is a fallacy.
I also wonder how people here can fit 3 and 4" hose under the frame rail without hitting the crank pulley or the tires eating the hose while turning in the paddock. I speak from experience not some calculations. 95% of the people on here would only be able to fit 2" hose and maybe 2.5 will fit in some instances, 3" will not fit without serious rubbing and 4 is a fallacy.
03-20-2012, 08:26 AM
#58
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Some fundamental errors on air flow here. The hose needs to be as big a diameter as possible and the number of bends needs to be minimized, as does the length of hose. You also want to use smooth pipe where you can rather than hose.
The cooling is basically related to the mass of air flowing. That means it is related to the amount of flow in cubic feet per minute, or cfm. The amount of cfm that flows is dependent on the pressure difference between the inlet on the front of the car and the outlet at the rotor end, and the flow resistance. Thus you want to minimize flow resistance. Flow resistance depends on duct diameter, number and radius of bends, flow resistance of hose or duct. You add up all the flow resistances (they are in series) and that gives you volumetric flow which depends on (pressure difference)/(flow resistance). 2" hose and fittings have a much higher flow resistance than 3" hose and fittings, and thus will give you much less flow. It turns out for steady flow in a straight pipe, that volumetric air flow depends on the diameter^3. So a 4" pipe will flow 8 times more air than a 2" pipe for the same pressure drop, length and flow velocity, and a 3" pipe will flow over 3 times more than a 2' pipe. See a calculator here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/da...ion-d_646.html
If you work out the flow equation using that D'Arcy-Weisbach equation, with some example values
Q = volumetric flow rate (m3/s)
deltaP = pressure drop (N/m2) = 85.4
d = pipe diameter (m) = 0.05 & 0.075 m ( 2" & 3 ")
lamdba = friction coefficient (dimensionless) = 0.019
l = pipe length (m) = 1 m (40")
rho = air density (kg/m3) = 1.2 kg/m3
v = air velocity (m/s) = 19.35 m/s ( 43 mph)
Volumetric flow Q = (pi/2) * (deltaP * d^3)/(lambda * l * rho * v)
= 0.038 m3/s ( 80.5 cfm) for 2" pipe and
= 0.128 m3/s ( 271 cfm ) for 3" pipe or 3.375 times more flow (ratio of 3^3/2^3)
Of course it's a little more complicated than that for an actual brake duct system, but the idea is the same.
Other thing you want is to put the air inlet on a point of maximum pressure to maximize flow. Of course when a 3" hose won't fit, a 2" hose is better than none, but not remotely as good as a 3" hose.
The cooling is basically related to the mass of air flowing. That means it is related to the amount of flow in cubic feet per minute, or cfm. The amount of cfm that flows is dependent on the pressure difference between the inlet on the front of the car and the outlet at the rotor end, and the flow resistance. Thus you want to minimize flow resistance. Flow resistance depends on duct diameter, number and radius of bends, flow resistance of hose or duct. You add up all the flow resistances (they are in series) and that gives you volumetric flow which depends on (pressure difference)/(flow resistance). 2" hose and fittings have a much higher flow resistance than 3" hose and fittings, and thus will give you much less flow. It turns out for steady flow in a straight pipe, that volumetric air flow depends on the diameter^3. So a 4" pipe will flow 8 times more air than a 2" pipe for the same pressure drop, length and flow velocity, and a 3" pipe will flow over 3 times more than a 2' pipe. See a calculator here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/da...ion-d_646.html
If you work out the flow equation using that D'Arcy-Weisbach equation, with some example values
Q = volumetric flow rate (m3/s)
deltaP = pressure drop (N/m2) = 85.4
d = pipe diameter (m) = 0.05 & 0.075 m ( 2" & 3 ")
lamdba = friction coefficient (dimensionless) = 0.019
l = pipe length (m) = 1 m (40")
rho = air density (kg/m3) = 1.2 kg/m3
v = air velocity (m/s) = 19.35 m/s ( 43 mph)
Volumetric flow Q = (pi/2) * (deltaP * d^3)/(lambda * l * rho * v)
= 0.038 m3/s ( 80.5 cfm) for 2" pipe and
= 0.128 m3/s ( 271 cfm ) for 3" pipe or 3.375 times more flow (ratio of 3^3/2^3)
Of course it's a little more complicated than that for an actual brake duct system, but the idea is the same.
Other thing you want is to put the air inlet on a point of maximum pressure to maximize flow. Of course when a 3" hose won't fit, a 2" hose is better than none, but not remotely as good as a 3" hose.
Come on doooooood not everyone speaks Einstein here.... as long as it gets the desired results, it doesnt matter how it adds up.
If the kit works it works.
Im sure Justin did his homework on the racetrack!
03-20-2012, 08:55 AM
#59
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Descartes, I've come to realize that math is very similar to learning a foreign language. You understand this language clearly. Most of us however, are not fluent in it but most of use do understand concepts, the reasoning and practical physics... just not the language.
So, instead of using a foreign language, can you explain what you explained in a language the rest of us understand? Most of us aren't "dummies" we just haven't learned that language....yet. So the request isn't necessarily to dumb it down, but to translate.
Most budgetary racers (for God's sake we ARE on Honda Tech, not Maclaren-Tech) are racing not only with restricted budgets but often times limited resources, fabrication allowances and without mathematical engineering degrees. So often times, while the engineering side of you thinks in terms of ideal scenarios (smooth tubing, less bends, larger piping) in reality what we have to work is less than "ideal", mathematically or otherwise.
So, instead of using a foreign language, can you explain what you explained in a language the rest of us understand? Most of us aren't "dummies" we just haven't learned that language....yet. So the request isn't necessarily to dumb it down, but to translate.
Most budgetary racers (for God's sake we ARE on Honda Tech, not Maclaren-Tech) are racing not only with restricted budgets but often times limited resources, fabrication allowances and without mathematical engineering degrees. So often times, while the engineering side of you thinks in terms of ideal scenarios (smooth tubing, less bends, larger piping) in reality what we have to work is less than "ideal", mathematically or otherwise.
03-20-2012, 09:04 AM
#60
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Descartes, I've come to realize that math is very similar to learning a foreign language. You understand this language clearly. Most of us however, are not fluent in it but most of use do understand concepts, the reasoning and practical physics... just not the language.
So, instead of using a foreign language, can you explain what you explained in a language the rest of us understand? Most of us aren't "dummies" we just haven't learned that language....yet. So the request isn't necessarily to dumb it down, but to translate.
Most budgetary racers (for God's sake we ARE on Honda Tech, not Maclaren-Tech) are racing not only with restricted budgets but often times limited resources, fabrication allowances and without mathematical engineering degrees. So often times, while the engineering side of you thinks in terms of ideal scenarios (smooth tubing, less bends, larger piping) in reality what we have to work is less than "ideal", mathematically or otherwise.
So, instead of using a foreign language, can you explain what you explained in a language the rest of us understand? Most of us aren't "dummies" we just haven't learned that language....yet. So the request isn't necessarily to dumb it down, but to translate.
Most budgetary racers (for God's sake we ARE on Honda Tech, not Maclaren-Tech) are racing not only with restricted budgets but often times limited resources, fabrication allowances and without mathematical engineering degrees. So often times, while the engineering side of you thinks in terms of ideal scenarios (smooth tubing, less bends, larger piping) in reality what we have to work is less than "ideal", mathematically or otherwise.
FYI im sure Justin also looked at everything from diameter of tubing to the most direct route to the calipers.
If we were all Realtime engineers there would be no reason to have this conversation.
But since we are all budget limited racers im grateful someone has the ingenuity to attempt this.
03-20-2012, 09:05 AM
#61
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
There are more ways to skin a cat as well as they say. Like these Porsche, M3, and mini ducts. Ultimately my goal is to cool in an affordable manner, no matter how it gets done as long as it works..
http://store.trgparts.com/brake-duct...ide-p7431.aspx
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-19...ake-ducts.aspx
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-38...ates-pair.aspx
http://www.waymotorworks.com/mini-brake-ducts.html
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop..._duct_kit.html
http://store.trgparts.com/brake-duct...ide-p7431.aspx
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-19...ake-ducts.aspx
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-38...ates-pair.aspx
http://www.waymotorworks.com/mini-brake-ducts.html
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-coop..._duct_kit.html
03-20-2012, 10:05 AM
#62
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Thread Starter
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/Helmholtz.html
http://www.chrysler300club.com/uniq/.../ramtheory.htm
"Longer, narrower runners have a lower resonant frequency, and the smaller diameter helps increase the air velocity." taken from - http://www.team-integra.net/forum/bl...culations.html
03-20-2012, 10:10 AM
#63
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
[QUOTE=JW racing;47057862] no matter how it gets done as long as it works..
QUOTE]
I agree,
i dont claim to be an engineer and never will, I simply tried to find an effective way to increase the air flow to brakes. (anything is better than nothing right?)
Out of all the sets of these that i have made there are only a few that actually ran them to their brakes anyway so my actual temp decreases are still unknown.
most people just want them in carbon or even kevlar for the "looks"
QUOTE]
I agree,
i dont claim to be an engineer and never will, I simply tried to find an effective way to increase the air flow to brakes. (anything is better than nothing right?)
Out of all the sets of these that i have made there are only a few that actually ran them to their brakes anyway so my actual temp decreases are still unknown.
most people just want them in carbon or even kevlar for the "looks"
03-20-2012, 10:16 AM
#64
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
The main point to remember is that air flow varies as the diameter cubed when keeping everything else the same. So if you have a certain flow in one diameter pipe, and you double the diameter, you will get 8 times more airflow. For a 3" pipe vs a 2" pipe, you get slightly more than 3 times more flow.
As for the effects of hose vs straight smooth pipe (or like the plastic ones shown in links above), here is a link to a post showing measured results for 4" diameter smooth pipe vs 4" hose. The pressure drop (which if higher means less flow) is 0.069 in.w.g. for PVC versus 0.323 in.w.g. for flex hose laid straight. That means that for that flex hose, the flow would be .323/.069 = 4.7 times less than for smooth pipe. It gets worse when you add corners, and worse for tighter corners. You want low pressure drop components.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bull...ead.php?t=1013
As for the effects of hose vs straight smooth pipe (or like the plastic ones shown in links above), here is a link to a post showing measured results for 4" diameter smooth pipe vs 4" hose. The pressure drop (which if higher means less flow) is 0.069 in.w.g. for PVC versus 0.323 in.w.g. for flex hose laid straight. That means that for that flex hose, the flow would be .323/.069 = 4.7 times less than for smooth pipe. It gets worse when you add corners, and worse for tighter corners. You want low pressure drop components.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bull...ead.php?t=1013
03-20-2012, 10:32 AM
#66
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
I only see what Descartes posted as some ideas and ideals to shoot for when designing a system. You guys are taking things a bit too seriously. This thread was supposed to be a discussion about concepts and ideas (or so I thought). Of course you can't always build to an ideal solution, especially not in production cars, but you can shoot for certain parts of the ideal and get a better system on the whole. If some airflow to the brakes is better than none, then a bit more than that has to be better by your same logic.
Given the air density and velocity is constant which it is when comparing different hose sizes for the same car the only real variable in comparing those two systems is the hose size. If you just look at that portion of the equation above (diameter cubed) you'll see that the larger the hose/inlet/orifice is the more airflow there will be. That's the only part of that you really need to see for simply comparing flow vs. hose diameter. All the other stuff comes into play when comparing complete systems, but for the sake of comparing here that makes it quite clear. When you can use larger sized hoses for this, but only when the downsides aren't to great (routing, packaging, clearance, cost, weight, difficulty, annoyance, etc). It's just something to shoot for get the most out of your system; any system.
None of this is in any way knocking whats been posted just helping explain some ideas on what to shoot for.
Given the air density and velocity is constant which it is when comparing different hose sizes for the same car the only real variable in comparing those two systems is the hose size. If you just look at that portion of the equation above (diameter cubed) you'll see that the larger the hose/inlet/orifice is the more airflow there will be. That's the only part of that you really need to see for simply comparing flow vs. hose diameter. All the other stuff comes into play when comparing complete systems, but for the sake of comparing here that makes it quite clear. When you can use larger sized hoses for this, but only when the downsides aren't to great (routing, packaging, clearance, cost, weight, difficulty, annoyance, etc). It's just something to shoot for get the most out of your system; any system.
None of this is in any way knocking whats been posted just helping explain some ideas on what to shoot for.
03-20-2012, 10:46 AM
#67
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
These allow you to duct fresh, cool air to the center of the rotor where it needs it most
03-20-2012, 10:58 AM
#68
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
I agree with you Erik but i think the translation gets lost when people put formulas into the equation.
The average racer doesnt care about Einsteins theory of relativity.. they care about the product working.
If a 2 or 2.5inch hose cools a caliper up to 40 degrees, heck if it cooled 20 degrees its considered a win.
I think for the sake of arguing and frustrating people lets try and keep things simple and in laymans terms.
I love listening to rene and scott but sometimes a little simplicity goes a long way.
It keeps those who may have an idea from throwing it out there.
Just go back and see some of the simple solutions that came from this and the other thread already.
The average racer doesnt care about Einsteins theory of relativity.. they care about the product working.
If a 2 or 2.5inch hose cools a caliper up to 40 degrees, heck if it cooled 20 degrees its considered a win.
I think for the sake of arguing and frustrating people lets try and keep things simple and in laymans terms.
I love listening to rene and scott but sometimes a little simplicity goes a long way.
It keeps those who may have an idea from throwing it out there.
Just go back and see some of the simple solutions that came from this and the other thread already.
Last edited by dirty19; 03-20-2012 at 08:45 PM.
03-20-2012, 11:50 AM
#70
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Thread Starter
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
I believe in creating and sharing positive results in my works, just like the dyno sheets posted on my Circuit Dreams facebook page. I prove to myself it works before I apply it, or if it does not, then I move on to something else that will work. Big tube header or small tube header..Cool the caliper or cool the rotor.. Cold air or short ram...I know there are so many ways to cook a given recipe and each chef has his own tricks and alternate ingredients, but it does not matter who is the chef or what the alternate ingredients are as long as the food is good and the goal is reached.
03-20-2012, 08:28 PM
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
I understand some of you don't like equations, but equations are the language of science and engineering and mathematics, and they are what helps everyone in the design business to actually design things.
So pictures can also help explain things, or at least show how the pros do things. First up is the Honda PRD factory brake ducting they sell for the Civic. Notice there is an absolute minimum of corrugated hose in the entire path. Just enough to allow the front bumper to be disconnected and then just enough for the wheel to move without breaking the duct. And 3" hose and pipe.
Next up are two of RealTime Racing's brake cooling setups, one on the TSX and the other on the RSX. Again, minimum corrugated hose, with aluminum tubing as on the Honda PRD car, all 3" diameter.
So pictures can also help explain things, or at least show how the pros do things. First up is the Honda PRD factory brake ducting they sell for the Civic. Notice there is an absolute minimum of corrugated hose in the entire path. Just enough to allow the front bumper to be disconnected and then just enough for the wheel to move without breaking the duct. And 3" hose and pipe.
Next up are two of RealTime Racing's brake cooling setups, one on the TSX and the other on the RSX. Again, minimum corrugated hose, with aluminum tubing as on the Honda PRD car, all 3" diameter.
03-20-2012, 08:49 PM
#74
Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
Thanks Rene.. this is what the Equations needed.
An actual example of what is trying to be achieved.
Now it all ties together ,and doesnt sound like an algebra problem that makes everyones head hurt.
I'm happy!
An actual example of what is trying to be achieved.
Now it all ties together ,and doesnt sound like an algebra problem that makes everyones head hurt.
I'm happy!
03-20-2012, 09:31 PM
#75
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Re: Fog light brake ducts and cooling theories
I'll take the equations all day long but request that they are accompanied with a translation so that I may understand. That is all, it's my own purely selfish request spawning from my inability to learn the language. And to beat a dead horse, I'm currently reading "Fast Car Physics" and that whole damn book is equations, valuable, just hard to get through. Like reading Dante's Inferno in Italian.
Back on topic:
Regarding size of tubing and flow capabilities:
It was good info to know that one 3" tube will flow more air than two 2" tubes. Sames goes for the smooth piping and reducing the curves. I'm going to see about fabricating something like in those photos as I need better brake cooling. I also have no cone or "collector" in the front of ducts thus further decreasing their effectiveness.
Back on topic:
Regarding size of tubing and flow capabilities:
It was good info to know that one 3" tube will flow more air than two 2" tubes. Sames goes for the smooth piping and reducing the curves. I'm going to see about fabricating something like in those photos as I need better brake cooling. I also have no cone or "collector" in the front of ducts thus further decreasing their effectiveness.