stuntman

If proper rotors cool themselves, then why do professional teams cool rotors atall, or emphasizing rotor cooling over caliper (either smaller or no caliper cooling)?

Robin6

Cooling rotors are needed in some cases, not really for the street tho. If you need rotor cooling on the street, well, best to take some driving classes first. On track, they are needed pending on car/setup/weight/engine power and driver habits. Heat sinks when cooled have more capacity to do they job, which translates to stopping power.

JW racing

This is why I mentioned I cool the caliper and don't have pics of my car with the spindle box, while many a requesting pics of the box to cool the rotor. It all depends on the user and sometimes you have to listen to what the user wants. Most people who want to use rotor cooling often use 15" wheels and much smaller rotor packages, I use 17s and 12.2 rotors so I need less rotor cooling and so I focus on the caliper where the fluid and O-rings are.
Still waiting for pics to be emailed to me of the box for the rotor, and I will share them when I get them. I do have a pic (courtesy of descartes) of a realtime car in which I have made several very similar to this one which is not a box.

Driven

I think you misunderstood.

S2integra was saying a proper rotor should have cooling vanes... and thus wouldn't need any ducting.

Problem is, there are plenty of rotors with cooling vanes that still generate tremendous amount of heat.

Running ducts to the caliper seems a bit... backwards. I could be wrong though. I do recall something where most race teams positioned their ducts to the rotor, as that's where the heat resides. The caliper has fluid and more material to help dissipate heat, while the rotor has to rely solely on air flow. That's why they are positioned to the center of the rotor, so the vanes pull the air thru the rotor.

But, again, I could be wrong.

JW racing

Driven you are correct, but it all depends on the size and design of the rotor used. Some have directional vanes and some do not, directional cools much better because it acts pike a pump drawing air through. A larger rotor is a larger heat sink and thus cools better than a small rotor. This is why exotics and lots of race cars have the largest rotor possible.
In NASCAR where you are limited by SPEC wheels, you have a small rotor package so they use the thickest/widest they can to have more airflow, and force air through them with a blower. If you ask any nascar engineer they really want the largest rotor they can find but they can not use anything larger and stay in the specified compact wheel package.
I use standard, $30 non directional rotors in 12.2"(for cost efficiency) and never have an issue there, my issue lies within the pistons and caliper itself heating, expanding and binding the pistons and also hardening o-rings. So I try to eliminate that and cool the caliper.
Heat cracks will happen rapidly no matter the rotor so I use the cheapest rotors I can since I replace them often. Some people do not use the brakes to the thresh hold and their rotors last forever.

JW racing

I like most of the ideas and seeing what many of you have created for ducts or cooling.I admire a lot of your guys' creativity posted. I think it is cool that we all share ideas because that is what a forum is about, helping guys across the pond or in another state or in your town.

If I don't step on any toes here,I think for people who want the most out their brake cooling that use wilwoods, no matter the chassis, caliper style or rotor size contact me are interested in universal spindle mount cooling boxes.. I have pictures and more details of some that I can not disclose. PM me or follow my facebook page.

known

iTrader: (1)

Personally, Im trying to cool the HUB and then the rotor which is done at the same time centering air flow.

That damn axle is in the way to do it properly lol.

JW racing

Known you have a PM

dbang003

couldn't you just put a wye in the hose and cool both rotor and caliper...provided you have the space to fit it and you're working with a one duct per side setup. but they make wyes with different size outlets so you could have a larger diameter hose going to the caliper and a bit smaller one to move air to the rotor.

JW racing

It is very difficult to package something like that in most cases. That is what nascar does and some Daytona Prototypes, but they require a blower to work well I feel because of the increased flow needed to move enough air through a "Y" with two outlets.. most budget racers want something very simple, cheap and generic in use. Unless it is an Enduro car, i wouldn't consider blowers just a good air box on the spindle that cools the area of the rotor and caliper.

known

iTrader: (1)

Thanks JW, returned pm.

So in regards to braking, with a duct setup on our very light weight cars, if properly mounted like we have been discussing, I dont see why you would have issues at all.

The need for cooling of both components I could see on enduros longer than 45 mins, like hours. The only track I really need these for is Sebring seeing as I hit the brakes about 3 times at Roebling RD, and Daytona is slightly more.

I brought up hubs which I think shouldnt be forgotten in this cooling process but its up to each person.

Thanks for the additions to the thread JW.

S2Integra

I have some fog light covers for dc2 94-97. They are not in use, Can and am willing to donate.
just pm me for details

S2Integra

Well as I metioned some rotors draw in air from the iside of the rotor and force air to flow quickly through the viens, others are just drilled and slotted. These all aid in self cooling. Iron like to hold heat and these methods allow air to pass the rotor so it will take heat away. However when on the track these methods may seem insufficient as the heat cycle of the rotors are great, and an additional method is being dicussed in this thread. Anyway, if piped correctly, I'm certain both the rotors and the calipers can see increased air flow. A cooler caliper mean cooler fluid, which is the real reason for the mention. If I use fluid for abs systems that holds up to a X amount of degrees, and I exceed that via super high friction pad, the fluid boils, expands, and fails. No one wants overheated fluid or cracked rotors. And professional teams have extremly large bugets. I have seen them in the pits for 24hr races, they throw the rotors away after a few hours that cost them 5-6k per rotor. And when viewing the Ford DP cars there cooling system was cooling every component of the brake system, not just the rotors.
To clarify, I would prefer to include calipers as part of the cooling, why focus on one aspect of something?

S2Integra

I have an idea to run the pipe on the iside fac of the rotor while near the caliper, that way the air path crosses both. However I need to get the brake setup I want first before I experiment.

JW racing

My boxes do just this, allow airflow to the center of the rotor, and to the caliper at the same time in a compact package. With a blower for enduros they really would be magnificent.

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

What's your fb page? I'd like to follow it

JW racing

Awesome! Click the facebook logo under my profile pic to follow our projects and my track events! It is a newly made page, so there is definitely more to come.

I have the wilwood boxes. Soon I will be finished prototyping the OEM caliper boxes and will see what you guys with OEM caliper setups think of the design.

Reyes

iTrader: (1)

Here is how i approched the issue. Designed some ducting that maximized the available space between the bumper and and the front core support. Then used a small exhaust pipe adapter and welded in a mounting point. This bolts to the upper 17mm caliper bolt.
the taper in the adapter lets a flex-hose slip right over the end.

the placement of the outlet isnt the best design ever but it helps get fresh air down there. it works on a variety of brake setups also.
i dont have istalled photos. I changed to a Mugen Air box and it blocks the hose so i have to come up with something new for my car.

Driven

that's actually genius... never thought of using exhaust coupler as a mount for the spindle. nice thinking out of the box!

get RIGHT

I am enjoying this thread.

0BuyBrakes.com

That exhaust coupler is a great idea, brake ducts are on the list for our crx once we get the bugs sorted out, now we have a good idea how to do it! thanks for sharing!

JW racing

The exhaust coupler mounting tab is similar to how I am doing the mounting tabs on the OEM caliper setups with my box style duct, using the mounting bolts. Your bumper duct is very similar to my EG fiberglass ducts as well JR, neat stuff!

JW racing

Something many should keep in mind as I did when I made my kits, is the fact since most are not using blowers and using naturally forced air to cool, bigger is not always better. So the flexible tubing should be smaller like 2" in diameter to keep the velocity up all the way through the system to the rotor. If you have too big of hose and outlets, you will loose flow volume and thus just have a fancy tube setup that has about the force of your own breath blowing on the desired area, when you want to actually "pack the rotor" with air since it pumps air like a turbo and really can move that air that you cram in it efficiently. The smaller hose is actually easier to fit and mount along the frame rail as well.

Reyes

iTrader: (1)

the EG civic's only allow for about 2.75 inches of clearence behind the bumper. I designed this duct to use 2.5 inch tubing.
it's hard to tell in the photo but i actually make the ducting slightly smaller than the opening so that you have to flex the duct into shape for mounting, This keeps them nice and tight to the bumper. between that and the "funnel" design i think these would keep the air flowing.
I wish i had some real time data on the track so i could see what works best.

JW racing

That's correct, the inlet duct is fine it's the same as mine. I am speaking in general about the flexible tubing portion of the system being used. Some people use 3 inch tubing and that will just kill the flow by the time it reaches the spindle mounted duct portion of the system. That is why I mentioned 2" is best. So going from our fog light outlets at the bumper of 2.5" to 2.5 or 2 inch tubing and 2" at the spindle side creates velocity same as that of an intake pipe velocity stack or a whale ***** intake. Creating strong flow to the rotor.
A good test is take a straw and feel the focused pressure coming out of it when you blow on it, then take an empty paper towel tube and blow, you will see the difference in the focused air without having to test on a car or track.