poison

Finding a good alignment shop is always a pain, to find the good tuner who actually gives a crap what settings you would like your car to, or even finding the right shop with the right machine that your car can clear.

My car is lowered 1.5" with a spoon lip, and even when I pull into one of the local alignment shops around here, the car clears barely, but what pisses me off is I tell the guy kindly what settings I want the alignment to, and he didn't even touch it!

I've known some people who do their own alignments to get the exact settings THEY want, however it's quite a pain and takes a lot of time and certainly the right tools to make everything on point -- So.. with that said..

Do any of you do your own alignments? If not, how do you go about finding the best shop? What things do you look for?

If so, please explain what tools you use, methods, etc. Everyone has seen the string, metal bar measurement, etc..

Any input is GREATELY appreciated.

Thanks,
-Brandon

My95SlvrBlt

I may not make a ton of money where I work, but I have unlimited connections in the automotive industry.

A hunter alignment rack being one of the many, along with a tire machine, and hunter roadforce balancer.

EDIT: The tools I use are the above mentioned machine, and the nifty screen.

david@didrace.com

We do our own. I'd just look around for a road racing or circle track shop. They should be more than competent to do it and very willing to get the specs to whatever you want. Usually costs a bit more though. On average we charge $240 for an alignment but it goes up from there depending on suspension (ride height adjustment, corner balancing, etc).

FlyZlow

It is time consuming, but it's worth learning how to do so that you can make adjustments as needed at the track or even change alignment settings between events to better suit each track. All you really need is a set of toe plates (longacre plates are pretty standard), a camber gauge, and a box string setup.

BrianZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is time consuming, but it's worth learning how to do so that you can make adjustments as needed at the track or even change alignment settings between events to better suit each track. All you really need is a set of toe plates (longacre plates are pretty standard), a camber gauge, and a box string setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

speedracer33

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is time consuming, but it's worth learning how to do so that you can make adjustments as needed at the track or even change alignment settings between events to better suit each track. All you really need is a set of toe plates (longacre plates are pretty standard), a camber gauge, and a box string setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've tried this method, and wasn't very confident with the output. Maybe with time and experience I would develop more comfort, but occasional "bumps" into the strings, or using line of sight leveling, has made me question the quality of the outcome. I can get my car aligned to my specs for around $100, so to me, it's worth it.

Safir

speedracer - wher ein teh VF area is this, or is it a hookup you've got?

I used to work at a high school and the auto shop had a hunter machine, so I've always done my own alignments - my suspension is custom and fully adjustable so i fear how badly a "normal" shop may goober it all up and am pretty confident I wouldnt be able to convince them to do it to my specs

poison

I've also attempted using toe plates and string method, using a measuring tape, and while it seems like a good idea, after seeing the alignment machine at the shop I went to (not exactly sure if they were using a Hunter), but mounting those devices on each wheel and seeing them make adjustments seems highly more accurate.

I just wanted to see if there was a method or tool on the market to use that racers can do their own alignments very accurately besides the string/tape method.

Thanks for your input guys.

granracing

Brandon,
Many FWD cars don't have the ability (at least stock) to make many adjustments in the rear. In that case, the box string set-up really isn't necessary. As previously said, when racing you can't rely on expensive alignment tools (like the Hunter unit). It would also become very expensive to bring the car to the shop each time it needs adjustments. The self-leveling camber tool is nice to have (or if you're like me, borrow from another racer ). When doing the toe measurements, I find it is easiest to use two measuring tapes. I have some friends who use a laser measuring tool, but I've found the tapes work just fine.

The biggest problem I've had when adjusting toe is accidently turning the rod the wrong way, thus going the opposite way I intended. Doh!

Yeah I know. This didn't give you another way to do it. But I do think it is important for you to learn how to do it yourself at some point if you continue on with your racing.

poison

Thanks Dave!

I'll continue to perfect using toe plates and measuring tapes and give that a go..

I also have a magnetic camber gauge that was given to me a while ago, but I really haven't been able to get it to properly read camber/caster.

This is the exact one I have:



From what I understand, you just put the magnetic end on the center hub. But the spirit level is adjustable itself. No idea on getting proper measurements..

Any of you guys use this method on camber as well?

PS - Last question, where the hell do you "center" the steering wheel on the steering rack without disengaging the steering column? lol

Thanks again.

Cheers,
-Brandon

Lo-Buck EF

i do mine and a few friends cars as well.

fujiwara takumi

we do our own alignments:

a. because offroading throws our alignment off a lot, and SM is notorious for offroad excursions and metal to metal contact.

b. because we're cheapasses, and most shops wouldn't touch our car.


We have a longacre toe plate set and also a digital camber gauge, my dad has a set of smart strings, all three together are less than a k...but we know the stuff is right. Alignment isn't magical, it's just tedious without the right tools. We can get ours adjusted in under a half hour though.

superpilun

I'd like to add, on a decently smooth surface such as a garage floor or even a few pieces of plywood to drive up on at the track, you can just use a bunch of garbage bags, several layers to be sure, to keep the tires free to rotate, instead of toe plates.

Toe can be tape measured. Camber can be done with a construction leveler - with the bottom against a part of the rim, then measure the distance between leveler and a similar part of the rim near the top. Get the steering wheel centered first by trial and error, then when you do toe, do the same number of turns on both sides.

Rear toe is a little harder to center - the idea is to line it up with the front first to center then do toe after.

granracing

Hmmm. I like the trash bag idea. One of my friends uses two pieces of aluminum squares (maybe ~ .060" thick) and puts wheel bearing greese between the two layers.

The other way to "measure" camber and if more/less is needed is simply by tire temps (although others will argue it should be done by tire wear).

Brandon - your other question...do you mean how do you align it so the steering wheel is not pointed in one direction when done (so it's straight)?

poison

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmmm. I like the trash bag idea. One of my friends uses two pieces of aluminum squares (maybe ~ .060" thick) and puts wheel bearing greese between the two layers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I agree. Great idea.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The other way to "measure" camber and if more/less is needed is simply by tire temps (although others will argue it should be done by tire wear).
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a good take on it. Haven't thought on that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Brandon - your other question...do you mean how do you align it so the steering wheel is not pointed in one direction when done (so it's straight)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. Unless you just put it center from the start and adjust the toe from there.

speedracer33

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Safir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">speedracer - wher ein teh VF area is this, or is it a hookup you've got?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take it to Meyer's Automotive in Pottstown

WRXRacer111

BTW, if you do the aluminum squares trick... keep in mind that it WILL squeeze some grease out onto the surface underneath. Something to keep in mind if you're on a driveway/road you can't risk tearing up.

I used some aluminum sheetmetal I got at the store, not very thick at all.

coneheadsracing

I went a slightly different method, but in the end, its the same.

I measured under the car, found the center line of the car, carried those points out onto my front and rear bumpers. Then i put jackstands around the four corners of the car. Then i tie fish line to the jackstands, parallel to the side of the car. Now the tricky part, you have to measure from the center line, out to the fish line and make it the same front and rear. Then you measure out from your rims. to the fish line and you can see your toe. I've had good success with it, haven't paid for an alignment in over two years, and now no more chewing up my tires from crappy setups. I also use a leveler, and a 2x4 that sits on my outside of the rims.

Like was said, an alignment shop setup is nice, but if you change your camber or suspension setup, your money is wasted. Plus, if yoru car doesn't pull, or eat tires, in my opinion you won't notice a diffference between your cheap *** home job, or a sophisticated to the thousands job

SlapSmak

All my AutoX buddies and I do our own. I had 8 plates of steel cut and mounted the bottom plates to 2X12"s. The top plates sit on the bottom plates with a thin layer of synthetic bearing grease, it doesnt squeeze out too much. we used to do the box string method, taking into account the track width difference front to rear. We have switched to laser line levels to make our box around the car which has decreased setup time. I dont know how accurate it is from an actual measurment, but the steel ruler we use is graduated to 1/64". considering most computerized alignment machines are run by monkeys, I would say our setup is way more accurate.

bluegsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poison &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes. Unless you just put it center from the start and adjust the toe from there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what we do on our miatas - center the wheel (same amount of turns L and R on the rack) and adjust the toe from there. Unless something major gets tweaked, you should only have to go through it once.

Additional tip: use a strap of some sort to hold the steering wheel in place once you've centered it. Not sure if a Honda will be as susceptible to the issue, but on the Miata it's not uncommon to crank on the toe a bit, get it where you want and come to find the steering wheel has turned a bit as well.

Jarrod

CivicMike

I just did my alignment for the first time last weekend........changed ride height so toe was out and camber was +. My initial attempts at setting toe had me around 1/2 inch of total toe....WAY to much toe car would pull to the right under cruise and the left under throttle. So i did it again and again and again (for about 6 hours) and finally got it close to 1/8 total toe. Car drove SOOOO much nicer and straight....i ended up not liking the setup too much at the autox though i think i still had my camber too close to 0 or even + (car had a lot of understeer) its hard to do the alignment the first time but after that is just about your accuracy and measurements.....

yea my steering wheel was moving while i was adjusting toe what a PITA!

poison

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicMike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just did my alignment for the first time last weekend........changed ride height so toe was out and camber was +. My initial attempts at setting toe had me around 1/2 inch of total toe....WAY to much toe car would pull to the right under cruise and the left under throttle. So i did it again and again and again (for about 6 hours) and finally got it close to 1/8 total toe. Car drove SOOOO much nicer and straight....i ended up not liking the setup too much at the autox though i think i still had my camber too close to 0 or even + (car had a lot of understeer) its hard to do the alignment the first time but after that is just about your accuracy and measurements.....

yea my steering wheel was moving while i was adjusting toe what a PITA!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you use the string method or use toe plates?

Furyof4

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Take it to Meyer's Automotive in Pottstown</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's where I go, sets my car up exactly as I want it. I get it done so often that he does it really cheap.

CivicMike

i used the string method.......i found it hard to make the box perfectly square (close to 1/16) however if you use conduit for 2 sides then its alot easier (cut conduit to same length) or so im told...........

88 rex

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedracer33 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Take it to Meyer's Automotive in Pottstown</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good to know. I had a shop take care of my alignment here in Delaware (that was recommended by a tuner shop) and wasn't happy with the service and the outcome is questionable. They also found it odd that I wanted my camber left at -2.5 on the front and that I had completely adjustable caster. That led me to