Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype
03-08-2004, 10:19 AM
#26
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicFerio »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll try to come up with something more curvy or at least round of the edges. Thank you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would suggest making the bottom go straight across. That would make it more effective as a tie bar and eliminate a couple stress risers, not to mention being that much easier to produce.
I would suggest making the bottom go straight across. That would make it more effective as a tie bar and eliminate a couple stress risers, not to mention being that much easier to produce.
03-08-2004, 10:45 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (Jon V)
Agent Smith
The reason I made it go up in the middle part is because Varo Akopyan one of the Honda Challenge drivers told me that he seen tie-bars catch rocks and taking the whole subframe with it. I'll try to make a straight one and see how it looks.
Audipwr1
I choose 6061 T6 because of it is easy to machine and it is widely used in the automotive industry.
Jon V
The brace should fit in many types of anti-roll bars. All I need to know is the size and distance of the bracket holes.
The reason I made it go up in the middle part is because Varo Akopyan one of the Honda Challenge drivers told me that he seen tie-bars catch rocks and taking the whole subframe with it. I'll try to make a straight one and see how it looks.
Audipwr1
I choose 6061 T6 because of it is easy to machine and it is widely used in the automotive industry.
Jon V
The brace should fit in many types of anti-roll bars. All I need to know is the size and distance of the bracket holes.
03-08-2004, 12:06 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicFerio »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason I made it go up in the middle part is because Varo Akopyan one of the Honda Challenge drivers told me that he seen tie-bars catch rocks and taking the whole subframe with it. I'll try to make a straight one and see how it looks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had a feeling that was why. In which case, since you're considering making the profile curvier anyway, definitely make the inside where it transitions from straight to angled as smoothly curved as possible.
I had a feeling that was why. In which case, since you're considering making the profile curvier anyway, definitely make the inside where it transitions from straight to angled as smoothly curved as possible.
03-08-2004, 01:19 PM
#31
Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
Good job...looks like the RTR piece on the RSX 
I know where to get the bar and lever arms but where did you get the mounting hardware? Is that a bushing or a bearing?
I know where to get the bar and lever arms but where did you get the mounting hardware? Is that a bushing or a bearing?
03-08-2004, 02:23 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicFerio »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm now using a 32mm hollow anti roll bar in the back of my civic for accelerated torture test as seen here. The hollow bar will also be available as an upgrade to the 22mm bar and will be less expensive than a mugen 26mm bar.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Does anyone have any torsion specs on how a 32mm hollow bar compairs to a solid 23mm bar?
I'm now using a 32mm hollow anti roll bar in the back of my civic for accelerated torture test as seen here. The hollow bar will also be available as an upgrade to the 22mm bar and will be less expensive than a mugen 26mm bar.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Does anyone have any torsion specs on how a 32mm hollow bar compairs to a solid 23mm bar?
03-08-2004, 02:26 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (89civicdx)
it looks good but the only thing I don't like about it is that you used the stock end link. I don't think that is strong enough for that bar.
03-08-2004, 06:25 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
hey charleston, its the kid with the black si w/recaro's at the streets of willow on Dec. 14. 
lemme know when the EG bar comes out!
the anodized black would look nice.
lemme know when the EG bar comes out!
the anodized black would look nice.
03-09-2004, 01:30 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (EM1Guru)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agent Smith »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I had a feeling that was why. In which case, since you're considering making the profile curvier anyway, definitely make the inside where it transitions from straight to angled as smoothly curved as possible.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you very much!! Your advice will be definitely be considered.
R-Spec
Yes, thats the whole idea of this brace is to reduce if not eliminate any chances of tearing off the subframe.
89civicdx
The mounting is solid brass I think, with rubber around it.
mrlegoman
I don't know much stiffer it is, I'll find that out very soon. My target is to get it close to the mugen 26mm rear bar if not a bit stiffer.
I have been driving around with the 32mm hollow bar for a while now and you can really tell the difference in stiffness compared to a 22mm.
hondamanwill
I like the stock endlinks because they are solid, greased, have a dust boot and they don't squeak. I don't know if adjustable rod ends will squeak though. My only complain about the stock ones is I cannot adjust the length of it.
EM1Guru
EG will be out soon. I'm just finishing the final dimensions for the EK brace right now.
Thank you for all your responses.
Charleston
I had a feeling that was why. In which case, since you're considering making the profile curvier anyway, definitely make the inside where it transitions from straight to angled as smoothly curved as possible.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you very much!! Your advice will be definitely be considered.
R-Spec
Yes, thats the whole idea of this brace is to reduce if not eliminate any chances of tearing off the subframe.
89civicdx
The mounting is solid brass I think, with rubber around it.
mrlegoman
I don't know much stiffer it is, I'll find that out very soon. My target is to get it close to the mugen 26mm rear bar if not a bit stiffer.
I have been driving around with the 32mm hollow bar for a while now and you can really tell the difference in stiffness compared to a 22mm.
hondamanwill
I like the stock endlinks because they are solid, greased, have a dust boot and they don't squeak. I don't know if adjustable rod ends will squeak though. My only complain about the stock ones is I cannot adjust the length of it.
EM1Guru
EG will be out soon. I'm just finishing the final dimensions for the EK brace right now.
Thank you for all your responses.
Charleston
03-09-2004, 07:26 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (R-Spec)
Glad to see your putting some testing and engineering into it rather than just making something that "looks bling yo". Good luck
03-09-2004, 01:33 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (mrlegoman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anyone have any torsion specs on how a 32mm hollow bar compairs to a solid 23mm bar?</TD></TR></TABLE>
other things come into play as well , Don.
bend angles and mount locations also need to be factored in.
other things come into play as well , Don.
bend angles and mount locations also need to be factored in.
03-09-2004, 02:30 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (Doctor CorteZ)
You could put mulitple mounting points for the end link to make it adjustable, like the comptech...
Rounder is better...
If you want I can find out the torque differences on the bar if you give me the dimensions..of the two bars you want to compare..and materials..
And if you could round out the edges on the link from the bar to the endlinks would
be nice too... but that may cost you more..
and personally..I like anodized everything...black or silver, ti.
Rounder is better...
If you want I can find out the torque differences on the bar if you give me the dimensions..of the two bars you want to compare..and materials..
And if you could round out the edges on the link from the bar to the endlinks would
be nice too... but that may cost you more..
and personally..I like anodized everything...black or silver, ti.
03-09-2004, 08:31 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicFerio »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
hondamanwill
I like the stock endlinks because they are solid, greased, have a dust boot and they don't squeak. I don't know if adjustable rod ends will squeak though. My only complain about the stock ones is I cannot adjust the length of it.
Charleston
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a thought here, from looking at it. if you use adjustable end links instead, wouldn't that eliminat the need for the arms of the sway bar to be adjustable as well? I'm just trying to grasp the concept of just not welding it all together after putting the "bushing/bearings" on there?
I guess if that bolt is tight, and those ridges will hold it in, but I would be scared that at high speed turn in's the load on the bar would strip this part..and bad things happening.
Maybe I am just talking out of my *** too. :D
hondamanwill
I like the stock endlinks because they are solid, greased, have a dust boot and they don't squeak. I don't know if adjustable rod ends will squeak though. My only complain about the stock ones is I cannot adjust the length of it.
Charleston
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a thought here, from looking at it. if you use adjustable end links instead, wouldn't that eliminat the need for the arms of the sway bar to be adjustable as well? I'm just trying to grasp the concept of just not welding it all together after putting the "bushing/bearings" on there?
I guess if that bolt is tight, and those ridges will hold it in, but I would be scared that at high speed turn in's the load on the bar would strip this part..and bad things happening.
Maybe I am just talking out of my *** too. :D
03-09-2004, 09:17 PM
#43
Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (Jays91DXhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jays91DXhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Just a thought here, from looking at it. if you use adjustable end links instead, wouldn't that eliminat the need for the arms of the sway bar to be adjustable as well? I'm just trying to grasp the concept of just not welding it all together after putting the "bushing/bearings" on there?
I guess if that bolt is tight, and those ridges will hold it in, but I would be scared that at high speed turn in's the load on the bar would strip this part..and bad things happening.
Maybe I am just talking out of my *** too. :D</TD></TR></TABLE>
The ridges will hold...its a circle track piece
Adj end links(rod ends/heim joints) only adj in height...good for preload
The lever arm with more holes(or a shorter lever arm) will adj bar stiffness.
This is a RTR RSX rear bar pic
Just a thought here, from looking at it. if you use adjustable end links instead, wouldn't that eliminat the need for the arms of the sway bar to be adjustable as well? I'm just trying to grasp the concept of just not welding it all together after putting the "bushing/bearings" on there?
I guess if that bolt is tight, and those ridges will hold it in, but I would be scared that at high speed turn in's the load on the bar would strip this part..and bad things happening.
Maybe I am just talking out of my *** too. :D</TD></TR></TABLE>
The ridges will hold...its a circle track piece
Adj end links(rod ends/heim joints) only adj in height...good for preload
The lever arm with more holes(or a shorter lever arm) will adj bar stiffness.
This is a RTR RSX rear bar pic
03-10-2004, 04:21 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (89civicdx)
Interesting!
In the pic of the RSX, I notice the rear subframe extends out more towards the wheel, and the Sway bar is mounted right before the arm, as opposed to the Civic one where there is a few inches between the bushing and the end of the bar.
I think I know what you mean by
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adj end links(rod ends/heim joints) only adj in height...good for preload
The lever arm with more holes(or a shorter lever arm) will adj bar stiffness.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you had adjustable eng links, in height, potentially you could have the end arms welded to the bar. I'm just thinking as DIY kinda thing, would be easier for me to weld then to get these splines put in, I think.
But then I would also put the different hole locations on the arm.
In the pic of the RSX, I notice the rear subframe extends out more towards the wheel, and the Sway bar is mounted right before the arm, as opposed to the Civic one where there is a few inches between the bushing and the end of the bar.
I think I know what you mean by
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adj end links(rod ends/heim joints) only adj in height...good for preload
The lever arm with more holes(or a shorter lever arm) will adj bar stiffness.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you had adjustable eng links, in height, potentially you could have the end arms welded to the bar. I'm just thinking as DIY kinda thing, would be easier for me to weld then to get these splines put in, I think.
But then I would also put the different hole locations on the arm.
03-10-2004, 05:04 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (mrlegoman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anyone have any torsion specs on how a 32mm hollow bar compairs to a solid 23mm bar?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You'll also need the 32mm OD bar ID dimension, but you can easily find out how much (%) stiffer the bar is by doing the following calculation.
(32^4 - ID^4)
----------------
23^4
This assumes the arms are the same length
You'll also need the 32mm OD bar ID dimension, but you can easily find out how much (%) stiffer the bar is by doing the following calculation.
(32^4 - ID^4)
----------------
23^4
This assumes the arms are the same length
03-10-2004, 05:57 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (CivicFerio)
So it completely relocates the frame mounts? they look like they are further out? Also why would you go with the hollow bar over a solid one? I am definatly going to have to get one of these from you when you are done with all the R&D.
03-10-2004, 09:10 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (Jon V)
The hallow bar is a ton lighter and stiffer...
Its the outside of the bar that contributes mostly to its torisional stiffness...
So using a hallow 32 over a solid 22 should be stiffer and much lighter..
Its the outside of the bar that contributes mostly to its torisional stiffness...
So using a hallow 32 over a solid 22 should be stiffer and much lighter..
03-10-2004, 09:38 AM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (Outsane)
A solid 22mm bar is definitely heavier than a hollow 32mm bar with 1/8" (=~3mm) wall thickness.
The 32mm bar is also stiffer: 32^4-29^4 > 22^4
32mm is frickin huge though.
The 32mm bar is also stiffer: 32^4-29^4 > 22^4
32mm is frickin huge though.
03-10-2004, 06:12 PM
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Re: Custom Rear Subframe Pics/prototype (Jon V)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon V »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with your equation would a 24mm be stronger than the 36mm hollow</TD></TR></TABLE>
Assuming all other aspects the same (if they aren't then do your own math), the 32mm hollow bar is slightly stiffer.
Assuming all other aspects the same (if they aren't then do your own math
), the 32mm hollow bar is slightly stiffer.