WRXRacer111

Yes, I did a search, and yes I've asked this question before. Camber kit for G3 Integra is what I need. The purpose of this post is to find out if anything has come out better after the K-Mac system seemed to win out for quality vs. price. Are there any new parts that have come out that would be better? Has anyone had any striking revelations on the topic? Thanks!

Warren

How about the Zspeed kit? You can actually get more negative camber from it, unlike a lot of the other kits which pull the camber more positive.

Warren

KekeK-18

I'm recently looking into the Zspeed one too. They are called skunk2 now and they are $199 for a pair and I think its the most bang for the buck kit in the market which offers +/-3 degree of camber adjustment. King's motor sport have the same design kit and cost more than double. The only thing is they are in back order now and they told me the new shipment should be in by the end of this week.

RR98ITR

Scott Zellner says his a-arms have the ball joint carrier slider receptacle set at a greater angle than the original Z-Speeds. I know from playing with my Z-Speeds that at near full bottom you are just about at the limit of the ball joints range of motion. That would make the King arms superior and worth the money if the Skunky stuff is built on the same jigs as the Z-Speed. Be sure of what you're getting here, this is not the place to cut corners. I posted some time back about interference (correctable) between the Z-Speed arms and the uprights near full bottom as well - you can also see evidence of that in the original RTR pictures from the Temple. Again - this is not the place to cut corners.

Scott, who's really serious about this one.....

356racing

K-Mac all the way. I have seen all 3 first hand and the K-Mac rules for quality at a reasonable fee, plus it will adjust caster as an added bonus. I talked to Jeff Owen on Sunday and he has the K-Mac in stock.

RR98ITR

Can anyone post a description and some decent pictures of a K-Mac installation - I'm curious because the catalog pictures I've seen don't connect the dots sufficiently for me.

Scott, who's withdrawl has him seeing dots....."I'd kill for some R"......."lookout....there's a lobster loose...."

DB2-R81

Hey RR98ITR,

These are the best pictures I have. In the first picture the camber micro adjustment screw and it's mounting bracket have been flipped too the outside on the left lower unit to increase the negative camber. The common position to reduce camber would be the inside.



The installation is straightforward, press out the ball joint and install the unit spreading the wings to reduce free play. The shaft attached to the ball joint is off set, rotates and slides in the slotted mounting plate to allow for castor and camber adjustment. After rough adjustment tighten large top nut to clamp secure to the control arm.





The problem I had with them was on the installation for a 93 G2 Integra GSR. You can see the result. I checked the clearance at what I thought was full static suspension compression by winding the spring collar all the way down and lifting the suspention to the assumed limit of travel. Trimmed the end of micro adjustment screws for clearance. Believing I was ok and could drive on the street to a friends place for an alignment and corner balancing but one big bump compressed the bump stops and I bent the micro adjustment screw and bracket down. There was not enough inner fender clearance to allow the outside positioning of the camber micro adjustment screw and bracket with bump stop compression. They should not look like this; the adjustment screw should be projecting straight out.



This is with a very mild drop less the 1.5 inches and 450lbs springs. No go, I started with 2.5 degrees negative camber before the kits and was attempting to increase the amount. When I flipped the micro adjustment screw and bracket to the inside of the set up I was unable to dial in more negative camber because this exceeded the adjustment range of the units. I have not talked to Jeff about this yet as they are claimed to fit this instillation. I have switched to the SPC units trimmed the top of the bolt extending out of the adjustment nut and they are good so far. I can get 3 degrees+ negative camber. Moral of the story, second generation Integra’s 90/93 have minimal inner fender clearance for suspension adjustments. And check your installation very carefully at full suspension compression, including compression of your bump stops. The units are well made just be sure they are compatible with your installation.

RR98ITR,
I hope this give you a better picture of how they are installed let me know if you need more info.





[Modified by DB1-R81, 10:34 PM 6/13/2001]

RR98ITR

Thanks Marc.

Scott

ctenche

They look nice but what I'm seeing is that "micro adjustment" screw is going to interfere with the seam that runs across the inside of the fender well.

A stock upper control arm is inboard of the seam and clears it completely on full bump. With that screw pointing straight out and extending past the nose of the control arm it's going to make contact with the seam.

My other concern is with the cam like nature of the adjuster. It's looks real good and I can see that it offers a wide range of both camber and caster adjustment but the only thing that's stopping the cam from turning in it's place is one screw which makes contact at a very small point along the cam face. Somehow, this doesn't seem secure and I can imagine it slipping under track conditions.

I'm also not sure of the purpose of those wings.

DB2-R81

Hey Ctenche,

I will try to explain the operation.

The micro adjustment screw is only used after the large nut on the top is loosened off, it does not secure the position of the ball joint or support the position of the joint after adjustment and clamping of the unit to the control arm.

Attached to the end of the screw is a thin loop under and around the ball joint shaft that pushes or pulls the ball joint into the desired position and then the large nut is tightened to secure it.

The large nut secures your settings in place by clamping the unit to the control arm, ball joint with mounting plate on one side and large tapered nose washer with nut on the other.

The adjustment screw projecting out was my problem I have contacted Jeff from K-MAC and I’m also looking for some answers to this question.

The wings help to stabilize the unit’s position during initial set up and adjustments.

WRXRacer111

Perhaps I'm missing something here, please correct me if this is the case. You mention the "SPC pieces" as a fix for the clearance issue. Is this a piece one orders for the K-Mac kit, is this a separate kit, or is this just some sort of alternate hardware you've come up with that works? Thanks for any advice!

Currently, I'm running H&R OE Sport springs which are .75-1 inch drop so I think I have relatively good clearance as far as Integras w/suspension tinkering go. However, I'd like to keep the kit if/when this car gets a set of coilovers at which point clearance will probably be an issue.

ctenche

Ah okay. That makes more sense. What is the purpose of the adjustment screw? If for example, it was taken out completely, could you not still loosen the large nut on the top, move the ball joint to set your camber/caster and then tighten the nut?

It's hard to tell from the picture.

DB2-R81

Hey AcuraRacer111,

SPC stands for Specialty Products Corporation, http://www.specprod.com a long time producer of alignment products. The piece I'm temporarily using is part number 67130 and looks like this



Very similar in concept to the K-MAC unit with out the castor adjustment. The ball joint slides in a grooved plate and is clamped to the control arm with a nut on the top. The problem with these units is the nut and shaft protrudes significantly higher above the control arm. Also the height of the entire ball joint unit is greater resulting in less room for upward travel of the upper control arm. My solution was to trim the shaft protruding above the nut and this provided enough clearance for minimal suspension travel. I also built up my bum stops by cutting out some slotted rings of plastic similar to the white plastic rings that are supplied with most Koni shocks, and sliding them under the bump stops to the desired height.

Believe me when I say on G2 Integra’s there is very little room for front suspension alteration under the fenders. As you can see from this picture the ride height is within reason for a mildly altered street car.



Hey Ctenche,

I did not want to get into this aspect but since you brought it up. The last solution I attempted was just what you suggested. Remove the micro adjusters and use the units with out them. The problem I still had was the off set positioning of the ball joint clamping shaft. In a position with the shaft inboard I could reduce my camber or achieve a maximum of negative 2.5 degrees. With the shaft 180 degrees or outboard I could only get negative 3.25 degrees or greater. The working area I needed was negative 2.25 to 3.5 degrees camber. Part of the problem is the units and part is the original negative 2.5 degrees I stared with. This is the main reason I went with the SPC units, also they sponsored, supplied them for trial.




[Modified by DB1-R81, 1:02 PM 6/14/2001]

WRXRacer111

DB1 and 356,

SPC looks interesting. I haven't looked at the suspension setup of the G2 Integra... by any chance do you know if the G3 has more clearance than the G2? If there's no clearance issue on the G3... I think I'll be ordering the K-Macs tomorrow. 356, any idea how clearance is on the G3 Integras you've seen with the K-Mac? I'm assuming from your background that you've seen these on roadracing suspension-equipped Integras, so do you know if they work with that level of drop?

356racing

AcuraRacer111-
The G3 has similar clearance problems to the G2, but I'm not familiar with only being able to pull 2.5 negative out of the K-Macs. There was a G3 Integra running the K-Macs last weekend and I'm not sure how much camber he was able to pull out but of the top 3 finishing Hondas, 2 had the K-Macs installed. Jeff also has them installed on his JDM Type R so I'm sure he can give you the low down on how much negative camber to expect. I should get to switching my AIM Industries units to the K-Mac soon.

Crosser

Hey DB1-R81, I noticed the picture of your car you are running DSP. I am in the processing of checking, but I am fairly sure that the ball joint replacements which adjust camber are not leagal in Street Prepared. I am not sure they are even allowed in STS. I know the Ingals kits are allowed and I see that SPC sells similar kits, but I just wanted some of these guys that are thnking of buying these to be aware that you may want to check with the rule officials before you spend any money. It sucks, because I would love to have a set of these for my 91 CSP CRX.

EC

DB2-R81

Hey Crosser,

I believe you are correct if you run under SCCA rules. But I live in Vancouver, Canada and we run under ANN Canada FIA, CACC rules (Confederation of Autosport Clubs). They are legal in D/SP as long as you take suspension points -3. When I run in the US under SCCA its Street Modified or C/MOD for me.
We do not have the street classes in Canada and attempt to attract and incorporate people into are SP classes. Small population makes this a necessity although most local events attract well over 100 cars.

Crosser

Good, I just wanted to be sure that all the people here running SCCA understood the ramifications. I really would like to be able to use them, but I have confirmed they are not legal in SCCA Street Prepared. I am not sure about Street Touring, so those interested may want to check.

EC

shenrie

Damn Marc, everywhere I go your posting killer info like this. Youve got to be the most informed person I have come across on these subjects. You really know you ****. Believe me, when I get enough money saved up and am ready to upgrade to a real suspension and you dont mind, I wanna pick your brains for a while I was really hoping youd make it to the G2IC's West Coast meet. Oh well, Im sure we will cross paths someday. Thanks for the info and pix, top notch as alwaze.

johng

Yeah. He can also identify a throttle body idle adjustment screw for a D16Z6 just by looking at a crappy picture of one posted on line in another forum. (I still owe you a beer for that one )

SCCA STS/STR rules allow for adjustable control arms, so I'd assume the K-MAC parts would fly as well. Unfortunately, in SP classes, non-MacPhereson strut equipped cars (like most Hondas) do not allow for adjustable arms to gain negative camber.



[Modified by johng, 9:33 PM 6/18/2001]

Crosser

That was my point John, I know STS/STR allow for adjustable control arms, but I am not sure about adjustable ball joints. There is a difference. I am not sure where the line is drawn for these classes. Anyway, I hope this helps someone.

EC