Camber adjusters in IT
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Camber adjusters in IT
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The ITCS is a little fuzzy to me where it concerns adjusting camber. Eccentric bearings....where can I get some, where do I put them, etc, etc....??
Also, are camber adjustment plates/arms (like the skunk2 style) allowed in IT?
I'm running way too much on the outside of my tires at the track, and need to dial in some negative camber.
Boy, if those don't sound like nooB questions, I don't know what do. Oh, and can someone point me towards the thread that is definitive on what suspension bushings I need to replace with Honda stock, and which ones I should upgrade to ES or poly/delrin/UHMW, etc.
Thanks guys.
The ITCS is a little fuzzy to me where it concerns adjusting camber. Eccentric bearings....where can I get some, where do I put them, etc, etc....??
Also, are camber adjustment plates/arms (like the skunk2 style) allowed in IT?
I'm running way too much on the outside of my tires at the track, and need to dial in some negative camber.
Boy, if those don't sound like nooB questions, I don't know what do. Oh, and can someone point me towards the thread that is definitive on what suspension bushings I need to replace with Honda stock, and which ones I should upgrade to ES or poly/delrin/UHMW, etc.
Thanks guys.
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
Changing upper control arms is not allowed in IT.
Offset bushings can be purchased from a couple of well known honda specific road race retailers.
On the rear you can actually slot the trailing arm where it connects to the upper control arm, slot it horizontially where the bolt sits and that will allow you to adjust camber on the rear.....legally.
Fronts are pretty much offset bushings and ride height.
Offset bushings can be purchased from a couple of well known honda specific road race retailers.
On the rear you can actually slot the trailing arm where it connects to the upper control arm, slot it horizontially where the bolt sits and that will allow you to adjust camber on the rear.....legally.
Fronts are pretty much offset bushings and ride height.
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
the typical adjustable adjuster type of camber compensation is illegal (no skunk2, ingalls arms, etc.)
what you can use are offset bushings, since bushings are free. So, front upper A-arm bushings and rear upper control arm offset bushings are what you are looking for. OPM and SBMS supply these types of parts for EF civics, I don't know what you drive, so YMMV.
what you can use are offset bushings, since bushings are free. So, front upper A-arm bushings and rear upper control arm offset bushings are what you are looking for. OPM and SBMS supply these types of parts for EF civics, I don't know what you drive, so YMMV.
#4
Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
Darren,
It was nice meeting you at the track... sorry it was before everyone was leaving. They don't let you out of the car much during the School. How did she run in her first race?
It was nice meeting you at the track... sorry it was before everyone was leaving. They don't let you out of the car much during the School. How did she run in her first race?
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
Actually the ITCS is very specific and you are only allowed offset bushings, including the SPC anchor bolt type kit for the front. In the rear ther are several legal ways to correct Camber. Most people use longer bolts and washers on the upper arms or offset bushings. Any change you make to ride height will change Camber.
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (jisu009)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Changing upper control arms is not allowed in IT.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I still don't understand this rule. If you get the same affect with offset bushings as you do with a sliding ball joint, what's the difference?
Don't say cost because it's minimal.
Don't say performance advantage because it's bull. Somewhere after 3-degrees or so, you start going backwards anyway.
I still don't understand this rule. If you get the same affect with offset bushings as you do with a sliding ball joint, what's the difference?
Don't say cost because it's minimal.
Don't say performance advantage because it's bull. Somewhere after 3-degrees or so, you start going backwards anyway.
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (johng)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I still don't understand this rule. If you get the same affect with offset bushings as you do with a sliding ball joint, what's the difference?
Don't say cost because it's minimal.
Don't say performance advantage because it's bull. Somewhere after 3-degrees or so, you start going backwards anyway.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Same reason you still have to run P/S in IT. And retain the windshield washer bottle. And.....
I still don't understand this rule. If you get the same affect with offset bushings as you do with a sliding ball joint, what's the difference?
Don't say cost because it's minimal.
Don't say performance advantage because it's bull. Somewhere after 3-degrees or so, you start going backwards anyway.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Same reason you still have to run P/S in IT. And retain the windshield washer bottle. And.....
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (jc836)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Changing upper control arms is not allowed in IT.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought not. Just thought I'd check.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what you can use are offset bushings, since bushings are free. So, front upper A-arm bushings and rear upper control arm offset bushings are what you are looking for. OPM and SBMS supply these types of parts for EF civics, I don't know what you drive, so YMMV.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll check with Tom Blaney and see if he's got any made for an EJ (95 Civic EX coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually the ITCS is very specific and you are only allowed offset bushings, including the SPC anchor bolt type kit for the front. In the rear ther are several legal ways to correct Camber. Most people use longer bolts and washers on the upper arms or offset bushings. Any change you make to ride height will change Camber.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The bolt and washer idea for the back sounds like a good idea. Has anyone tried this? I'd be concerned with overstressing a bolt in a position where two components are "supposed" to be in compression to each other w/o washers inbetween.
As far as ride height, I'm already at the legal minimum (5" from the rocker panel), with no significant degree of negative camber (got the car aligned, and only had -1.3 and -1.6 degrees, left and right respectively). Between the 205/50-15 Toyo RA-1's and Kuhmo Victoracers, all of the wear seemed to be on the outside half of the tire, with the inside only relatively worn. Running cold pressures at 34lbs (hot up to about 42lbs or so.)
Am I having camber issues, or am I way off in my tire pressures? I have a pyrometer, just didn't get a chance to use it, but I would assume there's going to be more heat where there's more wear. Am I wrong?
About the suspension bushing replacements, I think I remember reading that I absolutely should go with stock Honda front trailing arm bushings, but the rest can be Energy Suspension's without any problems. Is this correct?
I thought not. Just thought I'd check.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what you can use are offset bushings, since bushings are free. So, front upper A-arm bushings and rear upper control arm offset bushings are what you are looking for. OPM and SBMS supply these types of parts for EF civics, I don't know what you drive, so YMMV.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll check with Tom Blaney and see if he's got any made for an EJ (95 Civic EX coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jc836 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually the ITCS is very specific and you are only allowed offset bushings, including the SPC anchor bolt type kit for the front. In the rear ther are several legal ways to correct Camber. Most people use longer bolts and washers on the upper arms or offset bushings. Any change you make to ride height will change Camber.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The bolt and washer idea for the back sounds like a good idea. Has anyone tried this? I'd be concerned with overstressing a bolt in a position where two components are "supposed" to be in compression to each other w/o washers inbetween.
As far as ride height, I'm already at the legal minimum (5" from the rocker panel), with no significant degree of negative camber (got the car aligned, and only had -1.3 and -1.6 degrees, left and right respectively). Between the 205/50-15 Toyo RA-1's and Kuhmo Victoracers, all of the wear seemed to be on the outside half of the tire, with the inside only relatively worn. Running cold pressures at 34lbs (hot up to about 42lbs or so.)
Am I having camber issues, or am I way off in my tire pressures? I have a pyrometer, just didn't get a chance to use it, but I would assume there's going to be more heat where there's more wear. Am I wrong?
About the suspension bushing replacements, I think I remember reading that I absolutely should go with stock Honda front trailing arm bushings, but the rest can be Energy Suspension's without any problems. Is this correct?
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
About the suspension bushing replacements, I think I remember reading that I absolutely should go with stock Honda front trailing arm bushings, but the rest can be Energy Suspension's without any problems. Is this correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You probably mean the rear trailing arm, but yes you are correct. There are a couople of other bushings that people are saying you should use OEM/Mugen bushings, but I am not sure on which ones.
About the suspension bushing replacements, I think I remember reading that I absolutely should go with stock Honda front trailing arm bushings, but the rest can be Energy Suspension's without any problems. Is this correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You probably mean the rear trailing arm, but yes you are correct. There are a couople of other bushings that people are saying you should use OEM/Mugen bushings, but I am not sure on which ones.
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ITCS is a little fuzzy to me where it concerns adjusting camber. Eccentric bearings....where can I get some, where do I put them, etc, etc....??
.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its not fuzzy at all. Its actually quite specific and clear.
You can use offset bushings.
How much more clear do you want it?
As far as "why?" I dunno.
Just keep in mind that SCCA has to write rules for dozens of makes and hundreds of models. Just because a rule seems silly for a Honda doesn't mean its silly for a Nissan or a Jensen Healey or a Dodge.
Is this why that rule is there? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
<shrugs>
.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its not fuzzy at all. Its actually quite specific and clear.
You can use offset bushings.
How much more clear do you want it?
As far as "why?" I dunno.
Just keep in mind that SCCA has to write rules for dozens of makes and hundreds of models. Just because a rule seems silly for a Honda doesn't mean its silly for a Nissan or a Jensen Healey or a Dodge.
Is this why that rule is there? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe not.
<shrugs>
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (Catch 22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Its not fuzzy at all. Its actually quite specific and clear.
You can use offset bushings.
How much more clear do you want it?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
...and...
Independant rear suspension mounting holes may be slotted and reinforced for purposes of camber and or toe adjustment.
Its not fuzzy at all. Its actually quite specific and clear.
You can use offset bushings.
How much more clear do you want it?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
...and...
Independant rear suspension mounting holes may be slotted and reinforced for purposes of camber and or toe adjustment.
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (jisu009)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You probably mean the rear trailing arm, but yes you are correct. There are a couople of other bushings that people are saying you should use OEM/Mugen bushings, but I am not sure on which ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I meant the front bushing on the rear trailing arm. Thank you.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Its not fuzzy at all. Its actually quite specific and clear.
You can use offset bushings.
How much more clear do you want it? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I get it, but clarification is never a bad thing. <shrugs back>
You probably mean the rear trailing arm, but yes you are correct. There are a couople of other bushings that people are saying you should use OEM/Mugen bushings, but I am not sure on which ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I meant the front bushing on the rear trailing arm. Thank you.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Its not fuzzy at all. Its actually quite specific and clear.
You can use offset bushings.
How much more clear do you want it? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I get it, but clarification is never a bad thing. <shrugs back>
#13
Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The bolt and washer idea for the back sounds like a good idea. Has anyone tried this? I'd be concerned with overstressing a bolt in a position where two components are "supposed" to be in compression to each other w/o washers inbetween.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This method works fine... have never had any problems with any of our cars using this method to get more camber
The bolt and washer idea for the back sounds like a good idea. Has anyone tried this? I'd be concerned with overstressing a bolt in a position where two components are "supposed" to be in compression to each other w/o washers inbetween.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
This method works fine... have never had any problems with any of our cars using this method to get more camber
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (MarkosMotorsports)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkosMotorsports »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This method works fine... have never had any problems with any of our cars using this method to get more camber</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm having trouble understanding how this would get you more camber? If I add washers between the upper arm pivot shaft and the body, I get less camber..... or are people referring to using washers between the spindle and the trailing arm?
Thanks,
Jon
This method works fine... have never had any problems with any of our cars using this method to get more camber</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm having trouble understanding how this would get you more camber? If I add washers between the upper arm pivot shaft and the body, I get less camber..... or are people referring to using washers between the spindle and the trailing arm?
Thanks,
Jon
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (Jon Nelson)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon Nelson »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm having trouble understanding how this would get you more camber? If I add washers between the upper arm pivot shaft and the body, I get less camber..... or are people referring to using washers between the spindle and the trailing arm?
Thanks,
Jon</TD></TR></TABLE>
Same.....
Where are you putting the washers in order to increase negative camber?
I'm having trouble understanding how this would get you more camber? If I add washers between the upper arm pivot shaft and the body, I get less camber..... or are people referring to using washers between the spindle and the trailing arm?
Thanks,
Jon</TD></TR></TABLE>
Same.....
Where are you putting the washers in order to increase negative camber?
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (jisu009)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jisu009 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where are you putting the washers in order to increase negative camber?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats where the slotting would come in......
Thats where the slotting would come in......
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Re: Camber adjusters in IT (FormulaIntegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oh, and can someone point me towards the thread that is definitive on what suspension bushings I need to replace with Honda stock, and which ones I should upgrade to ES or poly/delrin/UHMW, etc.
Thanks guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please follow link in my sig....they have exactly what you need (delrin) bushing-wise that are IT legal (& has offset bushings). And as they were originally made for my car (also an ITA/H4 95 Civic EX) I know you'll be happy with them
There are more IT legal goodies to come... the website is new & not completely finished, & there are more things in the works...It it not my business, but they make things I need (fix & improve stuff I break all the time so I can't break it, create things that either aren't normally available for my car or not available in an IT legal form, etc) so I like to let others become aware of them.
Oh, and can someone point me towards the thread that is definitive on what suspension bushings I need to replace with Honda stock, and which ones I should upgrade to ES or poly/delrin/UHMW, etc.
Thanks guys.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Please follow link in my sig....they have exactly what you need (delrin) bushing-wise that are IT legal (& has offset bushings). And as they were originally made for my car (also an ITA/H4 95 Civic EX) I know you'll be happy with them
There are more IT legal goodies to come... the website is new & not completely finished, & there are more things in the works...It it not my business, but they make things I need (fix & improve stuff I break all the time so I can't break it, create things that either aren't normally available for my car or not available in an IT legal form, etc) so I like to let others become aware of them.
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