hoffdaddy

I'm looking for the big cars, or long wheelbase, for a K or H series engine swap. This is not about the engines that come in the cars at all. The cars I'm thinking of are 3rd/4th/5th gen prelude, 4th/5th/6th gen accord coupe/sedan, 95-03 TL, Acura CL, CL9 (04-08) TSX. This is a chassis comparison, so I need to know all I can about the suspension, weight (disregarding engine, without luxuries), etc. I owned a 6th gen accord sedan, so I can speak a little on its behalf, however I believe this will mostly be the 4th gen prelude vs the 1998 (6th gen) accord coupe. As far as I know they share front suspension design, however the prelude has a solid dual link uca and a trailing arm on the lca, geometry is similar. Being a former accord owner, I know that it can accept a lot of TSX parts, so I think its close to the same design, but heavier. I can't speak on behalf of the other Acuras. I'm assuming the TL is a pig and more like a vigor than an accord, but I have no idea about the CL except that it's heavier and probably doesn't have a more desirable suspension design.

How much more desirable is the Prelude rear suspension over the accords? I don't see the trailing arms being of any help and the uca is not much of a loss. I see it would probably come down to transitional stability. I normally plan to set my fwd cars up 0 toe, -4* front camber, 0* rear camber, caster stock maximum and I work my way from there. Stock rear track width (disregarding wheel offset), usually widened front track, usually same size wheel width 8" or 9". The engine for this will either be a longrod k20 (87mm bore, 86mm stroke, 231.7mm deck) or longrod h21 (88mm bore, 88mm stroke, 219.5 deck), nonvtec, rotrex c38, 300-450hp, 6 speed if k series, locked differential. If I left any information out that you may need please ask, I would like to get to the bottom of this because I will probably never buy a smaller Honda again, I don't care how light they are. Finding technical information, especially from a reliable source and not some stancer kid, is extremely difficult. It's almost pushing me to buy one of each , but then how do you have time or money for race cars!

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Google works, you don't find many accords or TSX's on this forum.
Some Preludes but maybe a small handful.

hoffdaddy

You realize I asked a question because there are no helpful articles on even just the accord vs prelude? I'm looking for technical information, not some kid swapping his cb accord with used koni yellows from a 4th gen prelude.

Calif_Kid

I'm not sure if this will help, but you might be able to get some info from Mike Lock as he had a road race Prelude, so might have some helpful info and insight at least on the capabilities of the Prelude. He was actually selling the Prelude in thread nasaforums.com ? View topic - 1993 Honda Prelude H2 TTC PTC $11000 obo, but I believe that he didn't sell it, and it is now being used for running in Norcal ST3 and some Enduros etc. Not sure if you could contact him on Nasa Forums, or maybe in the Norcal Super Touring Facebook webpage. - Jim

PS - You might also get some info from posting on the Nasa HPD Honda Challenge Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/218610698225711/

hoffdaddy

Thank you sir. I'll check it out.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Totally realize what you are after.
Aside from two preludes, up here in nor cal,& one tsx that now runs in so cal ...there isn't going to be a lot of information on what you are looking for.
Why????? It's not a widely used platform for racing.
You can try checking model specific forums, or Google using Honda tech in the search thread see what you come back with.
If anything is on Honda tech you'll find it you include ht in the Google search

KoRn_vIRuZ

All EKs have a longer wheelbase than any Prelude, so you might consider that platform instead if that's what you are after. It is much better supported. Good luck.

Greyout

I have always had a soft spot for the 4th generation prelude. I absolutely loved that car, and it never got the respect it deserved until it ran way from the bro who was talking **** about it. Particularly loved walking away from DC2 type R's. I think the 4th gen prelude probably has the lowest CG of all those cars you mentioned.

I had a '06 TSX - last of the Hondas with double wishbone I think, but it subscribed to the suspension geometry of newer hondas.... almost NO camber gain at all under compression up front, and a very steep camber curve in the rear.

I enjoyed the '06 TSX on track and it was surprisingly balanced with a few basic mods.

hoffdaddy

I didn't realize that. hmm. I did know the prelude was incredibly short and I didn't know why... Still not beating the accords 105in, plus they didn't even make nice rear suspensions for the civics and integras, lord only knows why.

ThreeBrosRace

I think the 4th Gen Prelude may be one of the best Honda FWD chassis for road racing, but I might be a bit biased.

I've road raced EK civics, 8th and 9th Gen Si's, 7th(?) Gen V6 Accord Coupes, S2000s, and even a third gen TL. Oh and a 4th Gen Prelude. I think the Prelude is the best of the chassis (not counting the S2000). The car handles beautifully when set up well.

The long wheel base isn't the only factor to consider. For sure the long wheel base makes the car easier to drive and generally more settled, but not the fastest or easiest to set-up. The 4th Gen TL is the longest wheel base car I've raced, but it definitely wasn't the best handling or fastest.

Also, 4th Gen Preludes can be had super cheap, and the k-swap isn't too difficult.

Greyout

I don't know how much this mattered, but when I had my 4th gen prelude, I thought it was cool how the H22 leaned back over the axle, unlike the B-series engines that leaned forward away from it

Ascl9

I own two of the cars you are looking at an 07 tsx and a 93 prelude. Both cars I've autocrossed and done hpde days with. Both are great platforms. I would say it's down to your preference a new chassis or old chassis. I like my 4th gen tho... Have all always track my 92 hatch and want to build something different so I picked up a prelude. The one thing I found out about this car is the aftermarket parts (good track related parts) are harder to come by. Anyways set up on my prelude is -2 degrees of toe up front 0 out back. -5 degrees of camber up front-1 out back. Found out using front upper control arms out of a 94-97 accord bolt up giving that -5 degrees of camber. The front sway bar is out a 97 Cl which is 27.5mm in stead of 25mm stock but the stock is a solid bar and the cl bar is hollow. Had to make different front sway links but the bar bolts right in. I'm running tein super street coil over which are for a 90-97 Accord. Fronts bolt up but rears need to be modified to work. Using accord tops on the coilovers to tall hats. St tuning 1in rear bar for now. In the processe of using a nascar style rear bar kind of like asr 32mm hollow. Can post any pics of these mods happy chassis hunting.

Ascl9

Before Real Time Racing used the ITR's they ran preludes.

Matt_EH3

Nice that RTR ran it, but that doesn't mean anything. They also used an SER Spec-V for a short while, and it was garbage. :D

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Then it's time to head to stop by some shops that specialize in circuit racing, talk to some chassis designers, make some phone calls, etc.
Not to be a smart ***, but serious real talk: You're going to have to get away from the keyboard to get the information and specifications you need.
You won't get technical data like that from these teams that have invested hundreds of thousands into their projects on the internet... Sorry.. but that's how a lot of us older guys figured it out and got these other chassis to work, and found they work well. .

20CiviC02Si

iTrader: (3)

The old Preludes were a true force and not to be taken lightly. Chassis was quite rigid for the time, and they could fit massive rubber in the factory wheel wells. With the right powerplant and a good set of wide tires, I think the prelude would still be quite the contender depending on the class it's in.

Also if I remember correctly RTR won a sh*t ton of races in the Preludes when they were racing them.