DSC240sx

Tyson, I'm not sure why you are so upset about this thread.

I did everything I could to avoid bring skill into the thread at all. Anybody who doubts the skill involved has either never watched a NASCAR race and/or has never driven a car on any track at speed.
NASCAR skill compared to other motorsports seems to have less variables but demands more perfection.

What I was wondering is what you (everybody) sees in NASCAR that makes it so entertaining. I guess just the lack of variables is my biggest complaint. Sure every track is different but they all look the same on my TV. Yeah, they're going fast as hell, but it looks like slow motion on my TV. So, aside from great marketing, why is NASCAR so popular with everybody?

Maybe I should have spelled it all out in my original post and been more specific, but I thought I could get some interesting feedback w/out having to do all that.

Dave, who realizes it was too soon after those "other posts" to start a potentially controversial topic

Edit: BTW, I think the new wall design is very interesting. I wonder if they'll ever implement that on road courses instead of/in addition to tire barriers or in street courses where tire walls don't fit. I see Monaco a a good place to start

Tyson

like any form of entertainment, especially any sport, you have to get to KNOW the sport. im not a fan of hockey or baseball. because i dont know either sport very well. i dont know teams and players and dont care. i dont know all the rules of hockey, i dont understand powerplays and team formations, and i even know the rules of baseball yet i still find it ultra boring to watch. also i've never seriously played either sport. but i ask those who do, those who UNDERSTAND it, and they tell me whats going on and what makes things entertaining for them. like baseball fans know pitchers, they know what kinds of pitches they like to throw, understand how each hitter hits and his relative batting averages and that matchup makes it exciting to watch, which is all completely foreign to me. but MY IGNORANCE does not give me any right to knock either sport, and those PERSONS who do enjoy it.

im assuming you enjoy watching stuff like F1 and rally. what exactly do you enjoy about those? F1 you got just a handful of competitive teams, and a few drivers who make a difference. you see the cool cars zing around turns at cool camera angles and hear the whirr of the engines. Rally you see a bunch of cars hopping jumps and leaving clouds of dirt behind them and drifiting around a turn or spinning out and occasionally hitting a tree (RIP RL & RF). thats all entertaining. but its NOT racing!

i like seeing F1 (and MotoGP) because i like to see who wins. its a test of skill and teamwork and engineering. but ultimately, i root for my driver. i love it when i see a favorable pass, or go crazy when sometihng unpredictable happens to dramatically affect a race, and following them the whole season hoping the best for each race. i also understand racing, not just because i drive my own car, ive understood racing before because i personally have taken the time to learn and understand the rules and standards of the sport and the nuances of what makes a winning driver/team, so i can sit there and enjoy it, but i cant sit there and enjoy hockey or baseball for lack of the above reasons. and btw, i dont care to watch rally that much. they dont even race wheel to wheel, its like watching a drawn out qualifying session.

now, how is F1 any different than nascar? if you can root for a team or driver, understand what is going on during a race (rules, qualifying positions, yellow flags, pit strategy, and so on) why shouldnt it be entertaining? who cares if they are going around in a circle. as you said, it doesnt take any skill away. i guess that infamous montoya vs gordon exhibition proved that to some disbelievers. racing at the speed and conditions and duration they do makes them athletes. but then again, i wouldnt be so bold to say tiger woods isnt an athlete because he just whacks a 1 oz ball 300 yards on a a field of grass, or a professional bowler isnt an athlete either. (but hey, i can have my opinions i guess....) anyway, so if you want to see why ppl are entertained by NASCAR, then do yourself the favor and try to understand it. its definately a different FORM of racing than F1, in that its more of an endurance race. maybe you wont like endurance racing, i can understand that. seeing the ALMS cars this weekend practice for 3 hours straight, as fast as they go, gets really boring too, and they certainly can turn both ways. but dont discredit something because its not what you cant understand or enjoy. there ISNT any lack or lessor amount of variables, you just dont understand them.

heres another example, golf on TV. i never played golf, i dont care for it. i dont understand why it could even draw an audience to watch. i talked to a former collegiate golfer friend of mine, and at the most, its just rooting for your favorite golfer and seeing if he does well, or his opponents dont. even he said otherwise its pretty unexciting.

so, at the basic level of enjoying nascar is just rooting for a specific driver. maybe the only driver you know is Jeff Gordon, so i guess you really dont have much options for someone to root for. so of course youre not going to be interested. well neither am i.

yep, after all ive said, i really dont like nascar. i dont bother to tape a race, or watch it on tv. i dont care for the drivers as much as i dont care about the lakers. maybe ill watch it when its the championship, just like ill watch any sport in the playoffs. but i wont ever knock it.

DSC240sx

"so if you want to see why ppl are entertained by NASCAR, then do yourself the favor and try to understand it."
That’s the reason I made this post. I wasn't trying to bash it, I was really trying to hear what people saw in it that made it exciting. That why in my first post I playfully said "Convince me that NASCAR is the best racing ever".

Once I get over the initial awe of the rally cars driving in some of the conditions they drive in, I actually got bored watching rally as well.

F1 and tc and gt racing and others like it just seem exciting to me. I really don't know many names, and I couldn't care less who wins...it's just close, fast paced, anything can happen racing. Motorcycle racing is especially cool with just as close racing but man the way those things squirm under braking...it's just a blast to watch...I don't know the first thing about motorcycles and I have no interest in ever doing it.

Regardless of my ignorance on the above sports, I do agree with you...the better you understand a sport the more entertaining it is. Maybe my lack of writing ability didn't make that clear in the original post, but that’s why I started it.

Knestis

I'm not sure, Tyson, but I think we agree...

What NASCAR does really well - compared to rallying and road racing in North America - is make it easy to understand and get familiar with the sport.

** Easy to spectate - fans can see most if not all of the track, watch the entire race sitting down with food and drink, races that I can't attend are easy to find on the TV and even the radio if I'm stuck in my car.

** Racing is "racing" - relatively short tracks put cars close together and make it possible to come back from a lap-down situation, performance envelopes make passing more likely, confined terrain leaves accidents in the way requiring yellows to clean up, thereby bunching up the field.

** It's easier to tell what's going on - Think about how novel it is in road racing for all of the cars on the track to be in the same class. Something as simple as that can make a HUGE difference in terms of perception of what's up out there. Scoreboards and announcers to fill us in help, too.

** Technology is limited - A lot of people dig the trick stuff but limited technology makes racing more affordable and accessible, increasing participation numbers. More entries make for better racing.

** Effective development ladder exists - NASCAR extends this same logic down trough touring to regional and track championships, so it is WAY more likely that someone with talent rather than rich parents can move upward.

All of these influences lead to popularity which allows a lot of people to make good livings in the sport. Economies of scale get better so race parts compound down in price, even while potential for sponsor revenues go up.

I have no problem with someone simply prefering one option over another. I do however think we (rallying and road racing types, of which I am one) sell ourselves and the viability of our sport short when we don't take the time to learn from the oval track folks. If we employed even just a few of NASCAR's strategies, we might have better, more viable series.

K

Hracer

I honestly don't see why a nascar discussion is not a good thing on h-t. Unless we must strictly follow the "road racing/autocross" title, I don't see how a discussion about motorsports, or a form of motorsports is anything bad. If some people would decide to post ignorant type comments, well it only exposes them to the rest of the board!

Also, I don't like reading posts that make it seem that if you don't like nascar, you are either ignorant, you magically imply that it takes no skill, or you magically imply that nascar fans or its drivers are bad people, or whatever else that can be magically implied.

Getting back on topic, I would personally watch a whole lot more of nascar if:

1. If half (or more) of the rounds are on road courses. Honestly my biggest problem with ovals is their safety. Fundamentally, the average oval will never be safer than the average road course. Finding a roadcourse race more interesting is secondary.
2. If the "main event" like the Daytona 500 would take place on a 1.0 mile or a 1.5 mile oval (if it just has to be an oval to begin with), where more emphasis would be placed on the driver and not as much on the biggest budgets and best motors.
3. To begin with, it would hold at least a third of their races outside of the US to expand its exposure, appeal, drivers, manufacturers, sponsors, you name it.

I would be all over nascar if it was the F1 equivalent, but using closed wheel racecars. By equivalent I mean the top level of racing of closed wheel cars. Those who like to see ONLY oval racing in a season will always have their IRL. But of course none of these things would ever happen in the near future, so I'll just continue to find it *not interesting* for the most part. Is it really forbidden to find nascar not interesting and not come off as ignorant? (Read again 2nd paragraph).

MrIllegalX

I'm not going to get all into this but NASCAR is more of a "who's the better driver" racing. The cars are meant to be setup equal, even though the team that spend millions win more races than the ones that spend thousands.
NASCAR, along with most other racing is a team event. Pit crews, mechanics and the drivers must all work together to win a race. NASCAR racing is very, very difficult. I have a friend who races super late stock cars on a short track and he said it's the hardest racing he's ever done. It sure looks easy (left, left, left, just follow the oval....) but it's really not.

Watch the movie Days of Thunder and you might get a better since of what NASCAR is about.

Ross

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MrIllegalX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Watch the movie Days of Thunder and you might get a better since of what NASCAR is about. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You're the first person I've ever heard say that.

slammed_93_hatch

i look at nascar like golf boring as **** to watch, and appears on the surface to take lil or no skill but when u try to actually do it its hard as hell, but that still doens't change the fact that it is boring to watch

bruceski3

It all depends on what track your racing on. Personally i USED to be a big fan of Nascar, but now it just seems too boring to watch. The only ones i will watch is Sears Point , Watkins Glen, Bristol, and occasionally Daytona. Them are the only ones i can stand to sit and watch all the way thru. Most of the time i am in the Pits for the Busch race at Bristol since my buddy has a Car and hes had a few big names race for him. Joe Buford races for him now (my old High-performance College teacher). I'd rather be in the car itself racing than watching it. I go to Super Late Model races sometimes and that shyt is wicked. If you haven't seen that then check it out. Most ppl call it Redneck racing but as one of the drivers told me that the first time he ever drove one he went around a corner and he about shyt on himself since the whole back end was sideways and he was facing the infield then straightend it up going forwards on the front stretch. Over all racing well i gotta go with GTS racing. Love the rolex 24 and all.

thirstygersty

I compare NASCAR to WWF (or WWE, whatever). It's not just about the race, its a show, it's about what goes on behind the scene, the personalities, the strategies, the rumors etc. The road course races, Talledega, Daytona and Bristol make for some great racing. I don't watch it enough to be considered a "fan".

After driving a Cup car around Mich Speedway, you gain new respect for those guys! It is certainly not as easy as they make it look.

sykikchimp

There are different kinds of spectators in this world..

Some watch for the unexpected to occur, and cause the expected (i.e WREECKS)

Some watch for personal improvement. They look specifically at HOW what they are watching relates to them.

I think your one or the other.

MrIllegalX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You're the first person I've ever heard say that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you mean?

chad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Want2race &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i used to think nascar was crap till Montoya and Gordon did the car swap @ indy.. both were within a second of each other in the other persons car! that deserves respect~! </TD></TR></TABLE>


no THEY WEREN"T!!! go watch it again.... i remember gordon barely made the 115% rule....or was a second faster than the 115% rule