chrisb

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoRealityX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as driver interface, a 2000 Protege ES with 122 hp feels better than a ITR. I'm not saying it's even close to being as fast, but that's not what this thread is about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Crack is a drug and it will hurt you. I am sorry that you drove an ITR with a bent frame and blown shocks. But anyway.... having owned a $25,000 new Type R and a $10,000 Integra GSR race car I will say that the Type R is a joke in comparison. It seems like so many people try to build a good compromise car. Like driving a POS Protege ES that is kind of fun but slow as molasses. I think if I were to buy a fun "driver's" car I would just find a nice race car, buy it and be done with it. Who cares about how quick something is stock. I will hurt any stock Type R driver's feelings with a car that cost half as much. Thus why I traded in my 2001 Type R for 96 GSR race car. My .02.

JustChou

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gunner1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, I like that Team Batteraizees.

Is that from the movie True Lies? When that guy filming runs outta batteries? Hahaha! I love that part!

That's like the one I came up with...Team Best Quality. From a scene in the movie, The Joy Luck Club.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You get a prize! The name was chosen when I was entering the battlebots fighting season...check these out.

http://www.battlebots.com/meet...d=781

EDIT: I'll read the rest of the thread when I get back from church!

GSpeedR

The Miata's with the hardtop look really awesome. I think that alone removes the "chick car stigma". Though I wouldn't expect that to be legal for most race classes.

I've heard great things about RX7 Turbo 2 in terms of raw driver satisfaction.

It sounds like you are definitely not keeping it stock. I think that you really should decide whether this is going to be a track car or a track weekend car.

Track: 944, RX7 Gen 1, Miata, 914 (that would be sweet)
Track weekend: all others on your list

Hybrid Invasion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JustChou &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just went out and test drove a 2000 Civic Si...and I found that I did not enjoy it as much as I would have. I mean, some things were good (obviously more power in the higher gears, tighter suspension and a higher redline) but the main thing I found dissagreeable about that car was the driving feeling.

I just felt much more "removed" from the road when I was driving the Civic. I knew the engine was there, but I couldn't feel it like I could in my CRX. The clutch and throttle pedal strokes were too short for me, and the shifter, although crisp and precise, lacked a lot of feedback. Also, I can hear my engine a lot better in the CRX.

</TD></TR></TABLE>Well you have to think too, what engine do you have in your CRX? Is it swapped? if so, that would explain a lot as to how you can feel your engine a lot more in your rex than you can in a car thats designed for emissions and comfortability. They're designed to be quiet, and to run efficient. I really think the Civics went downhill after the EK(which I only tolerate because my friend has one). They just get bigger, bulkier, and seemingly slower. I wish they would just release the R's over here so we could have a little fun instead of being able to clobber every stock Honda short of an S2000 and the NSX.
Edit: Page 2 0wNage, y0!

JamesL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



BTW, if you think the 00 Civic Si is "plush," dont even consider the 02. </TD></TR></TABLE>


I assume you are referring to the 02+ civics (7th gen)? Just out of curiousity, would you say the same for the RSX, since they have almost identical suspension setups?

JustChou

Hmm...this is going to be a street/autox/HPDE car...no wheel to wheel racing until I can afford it, and I definately can't.

Ok...I don't think the ITR is going to happen...like I said, I hate the "ooo a type ARRGH" connotation it has, and it's out of my price range. Also, keep in mind that I'm a youngun...the CRX was my first car (BTW it has the stock D16A6 in it) and I wouldn't be selling it if I weren't moving to the Bay.

The MR2 Turbo is an awesome car, but I heard they were hard as hell to work on (considering you can't really be in front or behind the engine.

I guess my best choice then would be to find a 2nd generation Miata. I love the look of the cars, and I can't wait to drive one.

Any other suggestions?

JustChou

Eh, I think I'm leaning more towards the MR2 again. I mean, the Miata is great, but my MOM just made fun of me, saying, "well, it's not exactly a chick car, but it's cute." The deuce simply has much sexier styling.

The only reason I have NOT to go for it is that the mid engine setup is difficult to work on. What do you guys think?

MR2 Turbo vs. Miata 10AE

as a comparison.

PseudoRealityX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Crack is a drug and it will hurt you. I am sorry that you drove an ITR with a bent frame and blown shocks. But anyway.... having owned a $25,000 new Type R and a $10,000 Integra GSR race car I will say that the Type R is a joke in comparison. It seems like so many people try to build a good compromise car. Like driving a POS Protege ES that is kind of fun but slow as molasses. I think if I were to buy a fun "driver's" car I would just find a nice race car, buy it and be done with it. Who cares about how quick something is stock. I will hurt any stock Type R driver's feelings with a car that cost half as much. Thus why I traded in my 2001 Type R for 96 GSR race car. My .02.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry you're illiterate. He's speaking of new STOCK cars, not a racecar that someone has built. And you haven't driven a Protege; quite obvious from your post.

People care about how fast things are stock when they either:

a) race said car in STOCK class
b) must have signifigant other drive car on regular basis
c) cannot afford a racecar
d) cannot afford mods to new car

With your mentality, everyone should be driving around Lotus Sevens with Hybusa engines. That's not what he wants, nor is it what this thread is about.

siisgood00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I assume you are referring to the 02+ civics (7th gen)? Just out of curiousity, would you say the same for the RSX, since they have almost identical suspension setups?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, new Civic Si's.
And YES, the new RSX's are definately are a lot less in-your-face than the ITR or any of the civics.

Civic44

I have found recently that the term "driver's car" can have many meanings. I have owned different cars (always used cars) that felt like driver's cars in different scenarios. My EF hatch feels like a driver's car on the track: it's gutted, caged, race seat, springs and shocks, loud exhaust, no power steering. It's a true pleasure on the track. However, it's becoming less and less fun on the street.

My 1990 Mazda 323 rally beater (basically stock plus stripped interior and cage) is a much more "pleasant" car to drive in the real world, with our crappy roads and potholes. It's got all the fun of that 90-94 generation of Mazdas, the optional 1.8, and it's really loud and commnicative. I barely drive the Civic any more unless it's to the track or to get something fixed.

Also, I used to have a 1989 Saab Sport 900. That car was crap on the track and crap when you tried to drive it at 10/10, but driving around the city, driving in the country at 6/10 or cruising on the highway at high speed, it was great. You could travel for an extremely long time without stopping. In fact, I drove Montreal to Toronto non stop (310 miles) and felt as rested as after a 15 min drive. These are all examples of drivers' cars, but for different driving situations. You can try to get all of this in one car (the ITR comes close) but there will always be a compromise.

00R101

I have an ITR and an MR2 Spyder. The ITR feels much better to me but only because the Spyder has more chassis flex. If I stiffened the Spyder then it would improve greatly.

I had a delSol Si that started out stock. It was kinda disconnected feeling. The rear end would take a set at weird times in turns and I often had to do double inputs in normal spirited street driving. I added a set of Illuminas, an autox alignment and Ground Control coilovers fixed everything. When I first drove an ITR after having the modified delSol for a while I was impressed with how similar the feel was.

Alignment can make a huge difference in how a car feels.

JustChou

Noboty has said anything about the deuce vs. the miata!

PS. Saw both cars today. I really like the styling on the MR2, very sleek and agressive, but the styling on the miata is nice and clean as well.

<u>factors I've found:</u>
power (Mr2 wins)
year (miata wins, can buy much newer one)
availibility (miata)
handling (????)
ease of modification (miata, by a long shot)
"chick" factor (hard to say, but girls dig convertables. They also, however, love the pseudo ferarri styling on the deuce)
"convertable" factor (miata - I love true convertables
driver feeling and response (????)