buxredding

It has 118k. I just bought it used. The previous owner was about 15k miles overdue for this maintenance (and an oil change too from the look of it).

I know that their labor rate is about the lowest in town. And I really do believe that they are good people. But everyone has to pay the bills. I'm just trying to tell if they are marking up the parts a bit too high.

They lowered the estimate to $750. The owner redid the estimate, said he didn't know where the first guy who did it got the numbers from.

That takes the parts down to about $430 or so. He broke it down to about $300 for the belt kit (said it has all the pulleys and the tensioner), leaving the water pump at about $130. I know that that pump cost is $30 or $40 higher than I could get it offline, but the $300 for that kit seems close to what it should be.

I gave them the go ahead. I may have been able to shop around and save another $50 - $100, but I'm through with the hassle. At least I can sleep knowing that I'm not paying Firestone or one of those big boys $1500 for it.

Feel free to continue the comments and tell me I'm getting ripped a new one. I'll use it for next time.

--bux

P.S. - war eagle

BobSproket

When they replaced the water pump they had to empty the cooling system and later refill it. If they didn't follow all the steps for getting all of air pockets out of the system your cylinder head might possibly have overheated leading to warping or cracking or (you guessed it) a blown gasket.

So yes, the job could be to blame for this. Or... it might have caused a gasket that was already close to death to finally fail.

Honda_Enjineer

The guy doing the job is a little slower perhaps? But $850 is quite steep - you could find somewhere cheaper I'm sure. For that money they must be OEM parts but you should at least check that.

Lovemypilot

New member here saying hello to everyone and thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Lovemypilot

Just wanted to add I went to Pep Boys here in CT and borrowed tool OEM 27176. I only changed my belt, at 108,000 miles due to money issues. I used 2 craftsman 1/2" drive breaker bars and my feet and legs muscles to get that bolt off. Wear leather gloves. I also took the side mount out in one piece. Don't forget the small 10 mm screw holding the wire bracket connected to the side mount. Great site and advise here. Thanks.

booker reese

I'm getting a quote for the 105 mile service of $1,200 for the timing belt plus an extra $200 for the water pump. Granted that includes a lot of bells and whistles (oil change, tire rotation, etc.), but that seems awfully steep. Am I wrong? This is from the dealer if you hadn't guessed.

tuned2

The last dealership I worked for charged around $1350 For a t belt pkg and the 105k mile service. Every dealership is different with there pkgs. and pricing. Most dealers will only do belt and water pump replacement and charge accordingly for the other items.

Here was the breakdown.

T-belt Pkg:
Timing Belt
Water Pump
Cam Seals
Crank Seal
Drive Belts or Belt sepending on year
(T-belt Tensioner and Drive belt tensioner were seperate parts cost, no add. labor if needed)

105K Service: Honda recc. Maint.
Spark Plug replacement
Valve cover gaskets
Valve Adjustment
Oil Change
Tire Rotation
Coolant service (only if jobs were split up)
overall inspection.

That was our breakdown. other things pop up too during these services. Torn Side engine mounts, leaking or weak drive belt tesioners, etc.

Best advice i could give is know what is being done to the vehicle before agreeing to repairs.

johnanschutz

I have done this job and might do it again but this is one that I think for most you should let the dealer do it. I don't know if this is good or bad but for the crank bolt I used some heat but not so much to ruin the seals and then an impact wrench rated for 1000ft/lbs of torque. The ratings in reverse are not as high. A tip for the timing belt is to use white out or some other marker and put a mark on the belt and the cam at both cams and the crank. It will make it very easy to know if you skip a tooth. Also it makes it easy to transfer to the new belt. For the tensioner... take your time with a vice as it is a dampend unit. You can compress, wait and then compress again, wait and then compress again till it is back in and you can pin it. Good luck if you take this one on. I have done a few timing belts over the years but this one was the first that gave me that o crap feeling. I got the heat and impact tool tip somewhere on the Internet and it worked like a champ. Take care.

Honda_Enjineer

So.... I finally got around to doing the timing belt on my '06 Pilot today. Previously I had done the job on my '04 Odyssey (which has the same V6 engine) so I figured to breeze right through this job based on my previous experience.

Well, this time the crank bolt step WAS a breeze (as I was very well prepared for it with a giant breaker bar and a good pulley holder) but Honda still managed to throw me a few curve ***** anyway and screw with my nice plans.

This time I found that the different engine mount (just '06 model clutter), the new type of drive belt with its newer model drive belt tensioner to be major pains ITA. I wasted a lot of time on figuring those out - I'd do the job much quicker next time having got there eventually but it WAS a pain having never worked on this model.

Also, the timing belt itself is little different on the '06 version and I just found it to be slightly more tricky to install correctly.

Actually many of the simple steps that I did on my '04 Odyssey just seemed to be that much more "knuckle skinning" in nature on the '06 Pilot. Less space to work with perhaps? (which is weird as there appears to be more space in that area)

Anyway, I got there in the end (I had no choice really) but it took significantly longer to complete than it did with my '04 Odyssey.

I replaced the timing belt, water pump, coolant, both pulleys, tensioner, drive belt, oil seals, thermostat - hopefully I'm good for another 100K ;-)

Just posting this as a heads up for anyone else about to do this job on a Pilot. Allow lot's of time and expect it to take longer than you think.

Honda_Enjineer

Having just done this job today I can promise you that it IS a lot of work. I doubt that anyone (who knows what they are doing at least) is going to do it cheaply.

You should really ask only for quotes that include a new water pump, new coolant and a thermostat as well as a new timing belt, oil seals, and new tensioners, idler and tensioner pulleys.

Ask for genuine Honda parts only in the quote. If you are going to do this major job then IMO you should do it PROPERLY or not at all (ie. you could just sell the car instead).

Imagine how upset you would be if you needed to do it all again in a few months because you saved fifty bucks on one of these items.

If this job is done right (apart from doing the valve gaps) there is not much else to stop your Honda engine running well for another long time. A transmission failure perhaps? (which depends more on how you drive it).

ZoneIII

What a great forum! I'll be doing this job on my '04 Pilot soon. I buy the factory service manuals for all my cars so I have that but I see some very useful tips in this thread that will make the job easier. It's always great to hear from people who actually did the job like some of you here. But I have a dumb question that I am almost embarrassed to ask, especially since I have done all my work on my cars since I started driving 45 years ago and should know the answer.

Nobody mentions how they turn the crank to precisely line up the marks. Even the factory service manual doesn't mention anything about that. It just says to align the marks. Long ago when I had to align marks for whatever reason (usually with V8s) I would remove the spark plugs and tap the starter with a remote switch hooked up to the starter solenoid. With the plugs removed, compression wouldn't make it difficult to land on the right position although it still required many tries to get on the right spot. The only car I had that had a timing belt was a Pontiac Sunbird. I replaced the timing belt on that and I think I just had my wife tap the starter repeatedly until the marks lined up but I can't remember if I removed the plugs or not. (That was about 20 years ago.) But the plugs were very easy to remove on that car. so I probably did remove them.

Anyway, I would appreciate any tips on how the folks here who did the job got the marks aligned precisely. I'm guessing that you simply keep tapping the starter until you land on the right spot but I want to ask in case there are any tips to make it a bit easier.

Thanks in advance.

Honda_Enjineer

Put a socket on the pulley bolt to turn the engine. If you have already "broken it's grip" to remove the pulley you can still use it to turn the engine - the force required to turn the engine will never match the original torque on the bolt and you can easily remove it again with a hammer tap in the opposite direction.

My main tips:

1. I found the pulley bolt was very easy because I came well prepared for a fight and had a very good and well made (dedicated) pulley holding tool and a 4' long 3/4" (big truck) breaker bar. You need to rest your (use impact) exptension and socket on an axle stand to act as a pivot when you apply the force - the torque needed to break that sucker free is huge. The bolt releases with a loud bang as if something has broken (I was swinging on the end of the breaker bar at the time and everything tumbled).

2. I found that the Pilot engine mount is a pain and was more hassle than the pulley bolt (and more difficult than doing the same job on an Odyssey). At least for me that took a while to remove and was pretty fiddly.

3. MY BIGGEST AND BEST TIP THAT I FOUND SOMEWHERE ELSE (maybe it was on here): Use whiteout to make some white marks on the old belt on every pulley and one corresponding belt tooth (or a groove) prior to loosening and removing it. These white marks can then be carefully transferred to the new belt prior to fitting it. This makes the whole process much easier and more or less guarantees that you will not be off by even a single tooth on the timing. Ignore all else and make sure that your white marks are all correct. (What is MOST important is the number of belt teeth between the crank pulley and each cam gear - and not the actual orientation of each because they will move as you fit things). You will thank me for this tip - if you are off by only one pulley tooth on one shaft the engine may still start and run but it will lack power! NOT GOOD TO HAVE TO REPEAT THIS JOB AS YOU WILL SOON SEE!!

So... check and double check the white marks after fitting the new belt. If you are careful it is almost impossible to screw things up using this trick.

4. Do the oil seals, water pump, idler and tensioner at the same time. Again, you don't want to be repeating this job. You really need a pulley holder to remove the cam pulleys - but you can get by via sticking a socket through a cam pulley hole onto a bolt underneath (this worked fine for me).

5. The belt is made loose for tightening and fitting via the idler pulley that sits on a loose tapered bolt fitting. You tighten this pulley up on the new belt once your marks are all correctly lined up.

6. Replace the thermostat at the same time - you have to drain the cooling system anyway.

7. Allow 2 days if you are new to this job. Don't do it on a Sunday if you need the car for work on Monday.

8. Check some of the You-Tube videos on timing belt replacement.

That's it and good luck! It's not rocket science.

Honda_Enjineer

By the way, you are aware that there are little rubber covered windows on the timing belt covers with marks on them for each cylinder's TDC - right?

ZoneIII

Honda_Enjineer,

Those are great tips and they will be very helpful when I do the job. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me such detailed information. Over the years, I have done just about every job on a car imagineable but I have only replaced one timing belt and that was on a Sunbird which was relatively easy. (It was easy to access everything from the wheel well.) I know what you mean about preparing for a difficult job like this. If you go into it expecting it to be very difficult, it makes the job seem to go easier. It's better to be mentally prepared for a difficult job.

Wow! That pulley really is hard to get off from what you said. You mentioned that you had a pulley holder. Can you tell me what kind it was or where I could get one?

Your trick of using White Out or a similar product for marking the belts is something I am familiar with and I would have done that anyway. It's a great tip and it works great.

ZoneIII

No, I wasn't aware of that but I'm sure I would have found out about it before doing the job. I have the factory service manual and it probably mentions it in there. But thanks for bringing it up! You have been very helpful and I really appreciate it.

vltjr

Hi folks. This is my first post, and replacement of the timing belt, water pump..etc. is going to be my first major job on a new-to-us 2006 Pilot. I've committed to doing the job this weekend (it's my wife's DD, so I can't back out), so I'm searching around for instructions with clear and extensive illustrations, since I'm just not that familiar with this vehicle yet. Oddly enough, the instructions at the beginning of this thread seem to be about the most extensive I've been able to find so far (searching online and at the last minute), but the lack of pictures and detailed explanations coupled with some posters' tales of difficulty have left me feeling less than confident.

I'm pretty experienced with working on a wide variety of vehicles, but my lack of experience with the pilot, and the fact that I'm not going to be able to obtain a factory service manual (or even a Hayne's) by tomorrow has me nervous.

If anybody has any quick advice, or can steer me somewhere that I can find some illustrated instructions, I would be quite grateful.

Please accept my apologies for making such a whiney introduction.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for nice comments on my thread. The main reason I didn't post the images from the manual is because we are not aloud too. Helm inc monitors this site very closely and all images of shop manuals get deleted. The best thing you can do is head to your local Honda dealer and ask the service writer or mechanic to see the manual for your specific car. They always let me make photo copies of the pages. Just take time to read through them because the instructions always reference other sections for some of the work (like removing an engine mount or the PS pump). You will need to look up those other sections and make copies of those too...

If you plan on working on this truck a lot, order yourself the real shop manual Helminc.com. It's the best $70 you'll spend on your car.

Good luck.

vltjr

Well, I was able to put off the job for a day, but I'm starting on it tonight, and aiming to be done by tomorrow at about noon. There was no way I could get (or get to copy from) a genuine Honda shop manual today, but I was able to borrow a Haynes Pilot 2003-2007 / Acura MDX 2001 - 2007 manual from a neighbor who owns an Acura. It's the best I could come up with on this short notice, so I hope it's sufficient, and there's no misleading or outdated stuff to throw me off, or in other ways make things more difficult. After reading through the procedure, it seems pretty thorough and straightforward, but I continue to be concerned about the crank pulley bolt, especially since I already have the right front supported by a jack stand, with the wheel and wheel well access panel removed. It seems pretty tight to try some of the methods I've read about for removing the thing.

Oh well, I've spent enough time fretting - may as well jump in.

Once again, if anyone has any tips or other info, please respond. Thanks in advance.

Honda_Enjineer

Someone asked me for this info and so here goes for the forum.... I personally used this crank/pulley holder:

Honda Crankshaft Pulley Holder SIR-HO60 from Sir Tools

I believe that this is a copy of the actual Honda special tool and it really did the job (although the car needs to be jacked up fairly high to give clearance for the handle).

Yes it is a bit pricey but I'm glad that I didn't skimp on that - this thing is serious heavy duty and since I've used it on two cars already I reckon that it was worth it. The torque applied is really quite significant so not sure about using some of the other cheaper ones that I've seen.

BTW, you can also easily re-sell this tool (if you want) and get most of the money back as there really is no "wear" ever on an item like this.

wannanotherrex

i just felt that i would share my story. just to keep the rest of everyone else from being cheap.


took my 04 pilot to a guy i went to highschool with that works on nothing but honda.
needed oil changed, timing, water pump, plugs, brakes, and suspension done.
he gave me a really good price(be warey of prices too low)
i paid for all of the parts and took them to him in the pilot.
he did all the work, and he tells me after its all put together, that i got crappy Autolite plugs( i know i did, but hey, i've used them before in my other honda cars) and it was causing it to run rough.
car ran like CRAP. brakes sank to the floor and had to be pumped at least twice to stop.
the suspension is great! lol
anyway, just figuring that it was the plugs, i took it out and it was running like ****, and noticed it getting hot. so i got it into a firestone by my house. they did a block test(some blue liquid that turned green, i dunno) and told me that my head was blown.
cause: timing was skipped on the 1-3-6 side, plugs causing misfires along with the timing blew the gasket.


now i have my original mechanic that i was TRYING to get ahold of in the first place replacing pretty much everything in the motor.....


don't go cheap. get it done right


i spent 780 on parts,
360 on labor
head blew

another 750 on parts,
and 500 on labor

not to mention the nearly 500 that i'm up to in rental cars.


learn from my mistake

there was no paperwork drawn up for the first guy when he did the work, and now....as far as i know...i can do nothing but take all of that money up my exit hole.


oh, i'm in Houston. so if you're getting work done, make sure you don't take it to the same guy i did.
he might know his civics...but anything bigger and he apparently has no clue.
and i'm currently deciding whether or not to paste it all, including his name, all over the websites for houston.

Honda_Enjineer

Sorry to hear your tale - I wondered if you and he were still friends?

The primary reason that I do these things myself is that I know that they will be and then that they have been done properly. I also get great personal satisfaction from doing these types of job (not the least of which is from thinking about all the $$$$ that I save in the process although I'm lucky in that I could afford to take it to a dealer if I really had to).

But doing these things is NOT for everyone and that's for sure. Also, you should not assume either that taking it to the dealer automatically means that the work will be done well (ask me how I know this).

I strongly recommend using OEM Honda parts only if you plan on keeping the car for any length of time. Yes there really is a difference.

If you are smart and mechanically competent then none of this is really rocket science. IMO it is more a little tedious than difficult. But for most people using a dealership is really still the best and safest option.

This forum is really aimed at the weirdos like me who like to do these things themselves.

wannanotherrex

You know, i probably would be his friend, if the douche would be man enough to answer a phone call or txt. But hes being a coward.


And, its not that i cant do the work, its that id never even seen the honda v6 motor, no place to do it, and REALLY strict apts. It was mainly pure laziness on my part. I was under the hood of my old crx whenever i wasnt at work, but i had access to a second car back then too.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I can second everything this guy has said word for word! Watch out before you trust some guy to work on your car. If it's not a real shop, you will have no recourse should problems arise.

vltjr

In case it isn't obvious to everyone, I'm still pretty new to my 2006 Pilot.
I'm finally getting back to attempting to complete the t-belt/water pump/tensioner pulley/tensioner adjuster that I gave up on last month when I couldn't get the drive belt tensioner to move (it's an '06 Pilot with a hydraulic drive belt tensioner - at least I got stuck before getting too far into it). With a little help from these forums (especially civicsir924 in another thread) I got the drive belt, mount bracket (or whichever part is NOT attached to the engine), and both upper timing covers off, but I'm having trouble with a few things. First, I don't know if the 2006 has a different side mount than other model years or what, but what's on this car is different from what's pictured in the Helms manual shown in this thread, as well as in the Haynes that I have, and the All Data (supposedly model year specific) service and repair manual that I have up on my computer as extra reference, and I can't figure out how to remove the part that's attached to the engine. There seem to be only two bolts (upper and lower, on the firewall facing side of the mount) fastening it, and that just doesn't seem right. I thought when I got the front top cover off I'd see another fastener or two - but no. Maybe my lack of sleep last night is starting to affect me. Secondly, I can't see how I'm going to remove the lower cover with the hydraulic drive belt fastener in place, but in none of the three sets of instructions that I mentioned earlier does it mention removing this assembly. Am I missing something else that should be obvious? Thirdly, I started this project without any means of removing the crank pulley nut except for a 24 inch long, 1/2 inch drive breaker bar and my 19mm socket, foolishly relying on a suggestion in Haynes that I could remove the torque converter cover and lock up the driven plate with a large screwdriver while trying to break the nut. Unfortunately (for me), I haven't found any detailed instructions or illustrations that may help me get this done. Heck, I don't even know how and where to find the torque converter cover to remove it and try this method out. I'm hoping somebody can sort of set me straight with some advice at this point, especially while I can still get to Advance or AutoZone this afternoon or early evening to buy or borrow a pulley lock (is that what it's called?) or whatever tool(s) I may need.

Help!, and thanks in advance to anyone who tries to help me out.

Honda_Enjineer

HI, not sure what to say...

This project hangs on removing your crankshaft pulley (which really means removing that nut). Without completing that one tricky step everything else is just work.

On the last one I did (my '06 Pilot) I used a 4' long breaker bar and a special tool to hold the pulley in place. The one I have is:

http://www.etoolcart.com/honda-crank...t-sirho50.aspx

You will never hold the pulley without a serious holder like this - when the nut releases it is like a small explosion. It goes with a loud bang that will sound like you broke something! I was putting all of my weight on the end of this bar at the time (with a 3/4" to 1/2" socket converter)...

http://www.amazon.com/Titan-JUMBO-Br...4231646&sr=1-1

That's how much force it takes! You could get a large air tool to do it (or have a local mechanic rattle it free and then tighten it enough to drive home).

Use ONLY impact sockets, impact extensions and also rest the pivot point for your breaker bar/extension assembly on a solid base like an axle stand to give you maximum torque.

The Pilot engine mounting took me a while because I found it awkward to get at - very fiddly I thought. You need tools that can get into tight spaces to access the bolts involved. But it is easy and just time consuming to figure it all out.

But before you get to that - remove the pulley or just abandon the project and take it to someone who has done 50 of them!

Bob