FourthGen

Hi hondatech,
Sorry if this is in the wrong section it's my first post but I am trying to decide which swap would be the best choice for me.

I'm in first year of college and currently drive a b18a1 ef hatch I built and plan on building a "fake ek4/ek9" starting next year. The plans for this car are mainly to be a super reliable (300000+ kms) daily driver but still have some pep behind it to have some fun. I am not looking to mess around with any of the internals since a lot of threads discuss the most reliable setups being OEM honda factory engines. I have narrowed it down to roughly 2 engines, either a gsr or a k20.

I understand reliable turbo setups are a thing but i have always been a fan of classic N/A hondas. I am wondering if a K swap is worth the extra money and hassle putting it together compared to a b series. It does have a 6th gear which is very appealing, but this car won't see much track use and most threads I have read stress the potential the k20 has, but I doubt I will ever squeeze all the power out of it.

Just wanted to get some input from you guys to see if the k series is overkill for what I'm looking for or if it is worth it in the long run.
Thanks!

FourthGen

Bump

Chance EG

If you are in college, I'm assuming you don't have a tonne of cash or free time. You certainly can't have both.

One of the biggest mistakes I made in a build was starting an intensive turbo S2000 build in my sophomore year of college. I didn't have adequate funds or time to do things the way they needed to be done, it was a headache that quickly stressed me out in conjunction with everything else.

If you just want a reliable daily with a good amount of pep, and aren't interested in any internal work, there is what I would recommend:

Buy either a complete B18C5 (Integra Type-R) changeover, and swap in the full engine and transmission combo. This would be the most straightforward, and would be what I would recommend above anything else. The 98+ spec Integra also had a tighter gear ratio than 95-97, which personally I'm a fan of in all motor builds. You could swap in the full engine, the factory ITR intake manifold and throttle body are quite good, and at most just do a nice header with a decent exhaust and call it a day.

You could also buy a GSR longblock, and get either a B16 (no LSD) or an Integra Type R transmission. The ITR transmission has an LSD which is worth the extra cash, as it makes a pretty significant difference with handling and with traction. The GSR intake manifold is known to not be the best design, but it's up to you what you want to invest in or what you plan on changing out later. Again, the 95-97 ITR transmissions have a 4.4 final drive, and the 98-01 transmissions have a 4.785 final drive. The higher final drive makes the car rev a bit quicker and get a bit more juice out of an N/A setup.

I'd recommend checking out hmotorsonline for some of these parts. Let us know if you have other questions.

FourthGen

I have done some browsing on hmotorsonline, so you really think the b18c5 is worth it over the b18c1? There is almost an 1000$ difference

And would a short geared tranny be the best option for my scenario? I hear they get very revved out on the highway and that causes increased wear. I dont do alot of highway driving but since this build would be a car I would own for a while, i would prefer it to be able to be comfortable on occasional longish drives. Even with my ls transmission I was around 3000+ rpm at 100km/h

Chance EG

At the very least I'd get a B16 or 95-97 spec ITR trans, just to keep the car energetic and fun. LS transmissions kill power delivery on any Honda under ~500WHP.

It depends on what you think is "worth it", and part of it depends on what all you intend to replace once you buy the engine. I know you don't intend on switching any internal parts, but are you going to want to do bolt-ons? Intake/Header/Exhaust? If so, then you could just get the GSR longblock, and then get a B16 or a 95-97 ITR trans to go with it, and then piece together your own aftermarket intake/exhaust combo.

If you want to quite literally just drop everything in and go, then 95-97 spec ITR. I feel like if you've been looking at K20 swaps, you'd be disappointed with the results of a drop-in, 100% stock GSR swap. A bolt-on B18C motor, or even just a B18C5 with a good tune can get 175-180WHP and will be no slouch on the streets.

FourthGen

Thanks for taking the time to reply

I would definitely be doing I/H/E and I think I've gotten a pretty good idea of what I will end up doing thanks to you.

Although the main question I created this thread for, was to determine if a K swap is worth all the extra money in the end. A gsr appeals to me because of the quality but relatively cheap cost compared to other less reliable motors. Now that k series motors have made plenty of data, my main concern was swapping a b series into an ek, when they are becoming less and less popular.

I understand B series motors will always be a staple to the honda aftermarket. Except with all the k swaps going on nowadays, I just wonder if the k's are becoming the "new b series" if that makes any sense.

Basically I just want to know if you would choose a b series over a k series on a car you will daily for the next 5 years and why or why not.

Chance EG

The B's will still be around in the next 5 years, and there will still be aftermarket support. That being said, you're on the right track and I agree with your mindset that the "K is becoming the new B". This is especially true for N/A applications - Turbo B series are still very popular as they just fit a bit easier/cleaner into the EF/EG/EK engine bays than K turbo swaps do.

For your goals and intentions, I definitely think a B series would make more sense than the investment and added work of a K swap.

wunfstgsr

I think you answered your own question! your in College and im sure your on a budget! a K swap is very expensive! the K pro alone is like $1,500!.. that's just for the ECU! I have been around for a LONG time and I always wanted to go K and you know what stops me! the damn cost to swap one in! besides the B series is a strong engine. A K swap NA with mild bolt ons will make 200 to 230 HP a strong B series with good bolt ons will make 210+ HP not much of a difference vs cost for the extra HP imo.

Grab a GSR long block and use a Type R trans or a B16 trans these have short gears and make driving much more fun! The Type R has a LSD which helps allot but the B16 has very similar gears and will feel similar driving minus having a LSD. The gsr trans is not bad either to daily drive. If you find a JDM GSR trans they have a LSD from the factory! You will be fine with a stock GSR setup in a hatch there's plenty of power trust me! hell my stock EK hatch back with a 1.6l D series runs strong enough for me to be happy with the power daily driving it because the car is so light to begin with. The trans has long gears but once I rev it up it gets up and goes pretty impressivly and if I had a B series vtec swap it would be a very fun car! this comes from a guy who also drives a 350+ Supercharged Integra Type R so I know the potential of what even a stock B series would feel like in my hatch and a K series would be a bit more fun but I think overboard if its just a daily/fun setup you plan to build.

If you got butt loads of money then go K series if not keep it simple and enjoy the high revving B series as it screams into Vtec lol

jr_deleon

iTrader: (1)

As a current college student who once had a swap dilemma (less about what swap and more about when to swap it versus funds on hand), I'll throw in my experience into this.

Are you planning on starting the EK4/EK9 build-up next year as in a few months from now or deep into 2019? What does your budget look like?

I'm not going to assume your budget because I don't know. For all we know, you have grants and scholarships that pretty much leave you in the black. In either case, whether it be a B series or a K series, it'll cost money but depending on the swap you ultimately choose, what it will cost you will vary greatly.

Relevant to the thread's title, I daily drive a K swapped car. 2007 K24a2/06 Type S transmission with TSX 6th, OEM LSD and 4.7 FD in an EG chassis to be exact. Installed it myself in 6 days but it was freezing cold outside so that slowed it down a few days (done in a new-ish garage but ice formed under the garage door when fully closed, letting in ice cold wind). Only help I got was taking the hood off to trim the webbing, which I didn't even need to do anyway, given that I used a big tube header that wouldn't clear if I had the motor in the HIGH mount position (EGK2 mounts). It was worth it to me, but I can't speak for anyone else.

How does it drive and behave? About as good as I've imagined it would. Was it expensive? Not really, but I chose to do the timing chain, tensioner and all o-rings and gaskets, using only genuine Honda parts, along with some aftermarket parts, but those were a given (fuel system, mounts, header, shifter mount). OEM RDX injectors, RBC manifold and K tuned big tube (choice made based on future plans), 3" exhaust. Tuned on KPro (was not even close to $1500, but still more than what a comparable ECU needed to run a B series swap would cost), numbers are nothing to jump up and down about from an internally stock motor on pump gas. Does it move? You bet your *** it does. MR2 electric power steering if I need to park, I had it sitting in storage and decided to use it. Its more of a luxury for me. I love the swap and I wouldn't have chose any other if I could do it over again. I was determined to do it and I did. And of course there are budget K swaps you can put together just like there are budget swaps for other series. But don't skimp out on the engine/trans; buy it from a reputable place. This was done after I earned my first degree, and I'm still going to be driving it until the conclusion of school.

But if you're on a budget, think about the B series. A B18c with a B16/B18C5 LSD trans would be nice if your budget is in the middle. You don't have to worry about buying a fuel system, the mounts would be cheaper, no figuring out which axle combination works (swapping inners, buying hubs, or buying aftermarket swap axles), wiring should be very simple (no conversion harness needed) and everything is pretty much straight forward with no drilling out welds or chassis modifications (depending on which shifter you use and how it mounts to the chassis, and what type of P/S setup you use if you choose to retain it.. That's for K series only) And since it would be a daily driver, it wouldn't take much to get A/C and P/S going, and no kits are needed to make it work. It'll have pep. And you'll come out on top financially as compared to a K swap. With either swap, there will be odds and ins you'll want to address prior to installation (timing belt/chain, gaskets, broken sensors) so that you can just focus on a running car rather than finding out problems when you could have addressed it prior. I haven't had to do any maintenance on the swap and its going on a year now. Only oil changes.

In the end, it will be up to you to decide what you want to spend and, if you have your heart set on something, how long you'd be willing to wait to do it. If your automotive knowledge is pretty good, you could have a B swap running in a weekend. The K swap is a bit more involved, and will likely take more time. There's a lot of unnecessary products out there for K series that you do not need to have a running car (can use a PRC ecu rather than KPro), and if you get caught up in all the marketing hype, you'll end up with a lot of things you wasted money on. This is why I took my time to do the research on everything here and another forum. Give yourself time to sit and really think this out because ultimately it'll come down to money and you don't want to feel like you wasted it. And you're going to want to love the end product, whichever route you choose.