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F20C and K20A block and head Questions

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Old 04-21-2004, 09:58 AM
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Default F20C and K20A block and head Questions

Unlike the rest of honda series motors both of them rotate the opposite way.

Someone told me that it is impossible to put a s2000 head on a k20a block because of the cams spin the opposite way...

First of all is this true?

What about a k20a head on a s2000 block?

I realize noone has tried this but any info or ideas would be helpful.

Thanks,

NIkos
Old 04-21-2004, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)

you cannot put an S2000 head on a k-series motor. and you cannot put a K series head on an S2000 block. On an S2000, the cylinders, and pistons are vertically inline positioned, while on a k series block the cylinders and pistons are horizontally inline positioned. Therefore, the camshafts must be in line w/ the cylinders and pistons. Why would you want to do that anyway? K series head on an S2000 is a stupid idea. there are other ways of making more power.
Old 04-22-2004, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)

i dont know about fitment, but both motors spin clockwise unlike previous honda engines. the S2000 F20 was the 1st
Old 04-23-2004, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Huggy Bear)

I would be more interested in seeing someone use the f20B FWD gearbox and place racing F series mounts to stuff an f20 in a civic ect.

however this would mean 6 reverse gears or what ?
Old 04-23-2004, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Duke Togo)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Duke Togo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would be more interested in seeing someone use the f20B FWD gearbox and place racing F series mounts to stuff an f20 in a civic ect.

however this would mean 6 reverse gears or what ?</TD></TR></TABLE>
f20 in a civic...already been done. but who really cars about civics, the market is large enuff for them already. i'd be more intersted in someone making a custom tranny case for the s2k tranny to allow fitment to the k20 motors.
Old 04-23-2004, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (SimbaDogg)

why the k20 tranny is already a finely tuned 6 speed. The f20 swap I saw into a civic I would consider garbage I meant done like it was stock
Old 04-23-2004, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Duke Togo)

Here's the pic for those that have not seen a F20C with FWD tranny

Old 04-24-2004, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)

thats just ******* sick..
Old 04-24-2004, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (JUN EK9)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Duke Togo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why the k20 tranny is already a finely tuned 6 speed. The f20 swap I saw into a civic I would consider garbage I meant done like it was stock</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm....what the hell are you trying to say?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats just ******* sick..</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, its sick...but honestly if i had the money, i'd never even think about it. a sleeved b18c or a sleeved and stroked b18c would probably be cheaper, if not the same price...and make a hell of a lot more power.
Old 04-28-2004, 11:49 PM
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man... some closed minded foo's up in here...
Old 04-29-2004, 12:47 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man... some closed minded foo's up in here...</TD></TR></TABLE> ?
Old 04-30-2004, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: (Tad)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man... some closed minded foo's up in here...</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yupp, sometimes something different sparks new and greater products!
Old 04-30-2004, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: (FredoSP)

here's a big question actually...i dont konw if anyone will really have answer. but the k20 and the f20....both 4 cylinder motors, both using DOHC VTEC...but what makes the k20 so much more receptive to mods, and capable of so much more "bolt on power"? does anyone know how they are designed internally that makes them so different?
Old 05-01-2004, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: (SimbaDogg)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SimbaDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here's a big question actually...i dont konw if anyone will really have answer. but the k20 and the f20....both 4 cylinder motors, both using DOHC VTEC...but what makes the k20 so much more receptive to mods, and capable of so much more "bolt on power"? does anyone know how they are designed internally that makes them so different?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's not that much more receptive to mods than the F20C is. The difference is in tuning where there is more development for the K series in terms of engine management where for the s2000, the only think out there is the EMS and the majority running the EMS are running forced induction. There's power to made, just hasn't been tapped yet.
Old 05-01-2004, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: (vapor)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's not that much more receptive to mods than the F20C is. The difference is in tuning where there is more development for the K series in terms of engine management where for the s2000, the only think out there is the EMS and the majority running the EMS are running forced induction. There's power to made, just hasn't been tapped yet. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i really bed to differ...i dont know how up to date you are w/ rsx type s's...but what they can do for the amount of mods they put it, its really no comparison. for example, my buddy down the street has an rsx s, and he like many others have a setup thats nearly indentical. CAI, header, exhaust, type r cams, hondata flash...in most cases thats good for 230 whp. picking up about 50 wheel hp from just bolt ons, i've yet to see a s2000 come even close to that. then again, when you look @ the f20, u start to realize that its a motor running almost at its peak, many aftermarket parts give you very little gains.
Old 05-01-2004, 07:52 PM
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the reason that RSX's make uber power is the constantly varible cam timing...that's the ONLY good thing about K swaps...
Old 05-01-2004, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: (GSRswapandslow.)

"i really bed to differ...i dont know how up to date you are w/ rsx type s's...but what they can do for the amount of mods they put it, its really no comparison. for example, my buddy down the street has an rsx s, and he like many others have a setup thats nearly indentical. CAI, header, exhaust, type r cams, hondata flash...in most cases thats good for 230 whp. picking up about 50 wheel hp from just bolt ons, i've yet to see a s2000 come even close to that. then again, when you look @ the f20, u start to realize that its a motor running almost at its peak, many aftermarket parts give you very little gains"

A:your arguing with someone who's tuned "bolt on N/A" f20 is making 240 WHP without internal to the rear wheels, not a guess no a well my friend has this but someone who actually has an f20

B: your not very well versed

C: to date 293 WHP has been made on a dyno pack. Here is some more info

Encouragement thank you. ASM S2000 Tsukuba special could mark the good time of the 0'59'954 with favor.
Only the picture being provisional as a bulletin, because it publishes, the thing acknowledgement which is the possibility of being deleted.
Being to be published to the REV SPEED2 month number of December 26th sale, please view by all means.

ASM S2000 TUKUBA Special Spec

* Engine * 293PS/8750rpm/26.3kg-m
(Gross)
2.2L (87.0ツ×90.7)/compression ratio 13:1
* Crank TODA
* Camshaft TODA
* Valve spring TODA
* 4 connected throttles TODA
* ツエツキツマツニ TODA
* Oil type
* OMEGA
* Body
* Section body reinforcement
* Front upper arm reinforcement
* Rear sub frame reinforcement
* Power train
* ツエツクツセツデツィ strengthening clutch
* Flywheel
* Tsukuba S special muffler ASM
* Light weight conversion
ツ gross weight: 965kg
* Carbon bonnet Infinity
* Carbon fender ASM
* Carbon door ASM
* Carbon trunk lid ASM
* Carbon propeller shaft ASM
* Polycarbonate door glass ASM
* Polycarbonate windshield ASM
* Carbon hardtop Infinity
* SP - A ASM special ツδ個カツδ
* Around foot
ツ tuning
* N1 damper + swift spring (F:18kg/R:18kg) Infinity
* Stabilizer ASM
* RE55S (F:215/45/17 R:245/40/17) BS
* Professional drive GC - 07C ASM special BS
* Aero
* Front bumper Infinity
* Rear bumper ASM
* Wing VOLTEX
* Cooling system
* Aluminum 3 layer ツδ可ジツエツタツー
* In addition
* Multiple display Infinity
* CPU Mho TEX









[ It returns ]
Old 05-01-2004, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: (spirit R)

And BTW if money were no object 400 WHP would be more of a "peak"

ex : methanol and camless heads
Old 05-01-2004, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: (GSRswapandslow.)

Taken from asia.vtec.net


At this point, it is important to highlight again that the basic DOHC VTEC system is more than capable of delivering extremely high specific power outputs. i-VTEC is not needed. Witness the 125ps/litre power delivery of the F20C used on the S2000. Again what i-VTEC do allow is for Honda to go for the sky in terms of specific power output but yet still maintaining a good level of mid-range power. Already extremely authoritative reviewers like BEST MOTORing have complained about the lack of a broad mid-range power from for eg the F20C engine. In a tight windy circuit like Tsukuba and Ebisu, the S2000 finds it extremely tough going to overtake the Integra Type-R in 5-lap battles despite having 50ps or 25% more power. Watching the 'battle' brings one point painfully clear. There is a dire need of power from the F20C below 6000rpm. Every time the S2000 sneaks up behind the ITR, it fails to engage in a good overtaking move because the power from the F20C is surprisingly insufficient. The reason for this is because DOHC VTEC makes do with merging two distinct power curves. To get the extreme power levels of the F20C, the wild cams' power curve are so narrow that there is effectively a big hole in the composite power curve below 6000rpm. What i-VTEC can do to this situation is to allow fine-tuning of the power curve, to broaden it, by varying valve opening overlap. Thus this will restore a lot of mid-range power to super-high-output DOHC VTEC engines allowing Honda, if they so desire, to go for even higher specific outputs without too much of a sacrifice to mid-range power.
Old 05-01-2004, 09:43 PM
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spirit R
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Default Re: (Nikos)

Well the R does weigh 400 lbs less have better gearing and bigger tires for its size.
And is tuned for road racing unlike the 2k which would be better served on the auto bahn for it's stability and handling at speed
Old 05-02-2004, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: (spirit R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spirit R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"i really bed to differ...i dont know how up to date you are w/ rsx type s's...but what they can do for the amount of mods they put it, its really no comparison. for example, my buddy down the street has an rsx s, and he like many others have a setup thats nearly indentical. CAI, header, exhaust, type r cams, hondata flash...in most cases thats good for 230 whp. picking up about 50 wheel hp from just bolt ons, i've yet to see a s2000 come even close to that. then again, when you look @ the f20, u start to realize that its a motor running almost at its peak, many aftermarket parts give you very little gains"

A:your arguing with someone who's tuned "bolt on N/A" f20 is making 240 WHP without internal to the rear wheels, not a guess no a well my friend has this but someone who actually has an f20

B: your not very well versed

C: to date 293 WHP has been made on a dyno pack. Here is some more info

Encouragement thank you. ASM S2000 Tsukuba special could mark the good time of the 0'59'954 with favor.
Only the picture being provisional as a bulletin, because it publishes, the thing acknowledgement which is the possibility of being deleted.
Being to be published to the REV SPEED2 month number of December 26th sale, please view by all means.

ASM S2000 TUKUBA Special Spec

* Engine * 293PS/8750rpm/26.3kg-m
(Gross)
2.2L (87.0ツ×90.7)/compression ratio 13:1
* Crank TODA
* Camshaft TODA
* Valve spring TODA
* 4 connected throttles TODA
* ツエツキツマツニ TODA
* Oil type
* OMEGA
* Body
* Section body reinforcement
* Front upper arm reinforcement
* Rear sub frame reinforcement
* Power train
* ツエツクツセツデツィ strengthening clutch
* Flywheel
* Tsukuba S special muffler ASM
* Light weight conversion
ツツ gross weight: 965kg
* Carbon bonnet Infinity
* Carbon fender ASM
* Carbon door ASM
* Carbon trunk lid ASM
* Carbon propeller shaft ASM
* Polycarbonate door glass ASM
* Polycarbonate windshield ASM
* Carbon hardtop Infinity
* SP - A ASM special ツδ個カツδ
* Around foot
ツツ tuning
* N1 damper + swift spring (F:18kg/R:18kg) Infinity
* Stabilizer ASM
* RE55S (F:215/45/17 R:245/40/17) BS
* Professional drive GC - 07C ASM special BS
* Aero
* Front bumper Infinity
* Rear bumper ASM
* Wing VOLTEX
* Cooling system
* Aluminum 3 layer ツδ可ジツエツタツー
* In addition
* Multiple display Infinity
* CPU Mho TEX

[ It returns ] </TD></TR></TABLE>

firstly, nice try. i'm familar w/ the asm s2000, fastest NA s2000 on the tukuba circuit. if i remember correctly, it weighs in @ around 2100 lbs, completely w/ CF doors and all. and if i remember correctly, it was running a CR of around 13.0:1+. anyways, my point being, this is HARDLY a streetable motor. strictly for track use.

going back to my point, i'm sure some of you guys have heard about the hytech package that was available for something like 7 grand, 10k installed. coomplete w/ header, cams, pistons, basically a total build. the interested thing is, i THINK this build was good for about 270 wheel hp. can someone tell me if the tukuba asm s2000 had its hp rated @ the wheels or @ the flywheel. also, the VTC found on the k20 is actually one thing that is "taken off" w/ some of the toda cams available. i believe w/ the toda cam gears and ecu it basically makes the "i" in iVTEC non existant.

secondly, 240 to the rear wheels. nice output....mind if i ask what kind of mods you have.?
Old 05-02-2004, 03:25 PM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On an S2000, the cylinders, and pistons are vertically inline positioned, while on a k series block the cylinders and pistons are horizontally inline positioned. Therefore, the camshafts must be in line w/ the cylinders and pistons</TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh???
Old 05-02-2004, 03:54 PM
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spirit R
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Default Re: (SimbaDogg)

as I stated in my post on a dyno pak. On a RWD s2000 they take 15% for driveline so figure in the 315 range

Considering they have 101 RON equal to 96 octane at the pumps there and it freezing *** cold that compression could be streetable

The Hytech combo has no dyno numbers at this time

why

BECAUSE THE F"n MORON POSTS A VIDEO ON H_T OF HIM STREET RACING

the cops did a sting and caught his *** at 140 on the freeway racing it

Now even after parting it all out his insurance company is going after him, they were at the autosalon taking to John

+ he ran ITB's with no filter so he is a f'n moron

PM the forum mod for his build


Modified by spirit R at 1:07 AM 5/3/2004
Old 05-02-2004, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: (spirit R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spirit R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as I stated in my post on a dyno pak. On a RWD s2000 they take 15% for driveline so figure in the 315 range

Considering they have 101 RON equal to 96 octane at the pumps there and it freezing *** cold that compression could be streetable

The Hytech combo has no dyno numbers at this time

why

BECAUSE THE F"n MORON POSTS A VIDEO ON H_T OF HIM STREET RACING

the cops did a sting and caught his *** at 140 on the freeway racing it

Now even after parting it all out his insurance company is going after him, they were at the autosalon taking to John

+ he ran ITB's with no filter so he is a f'n moron

PM the forum mod for his build


Modified by spirit R at 1:07 AM 5/3/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
dude....dude...slow down. ok i what you said about the s2000 running on higher octane gas, and being on a dynopack...i follow you there. but what are you talking about the hytech not having dyno numbers? are we both talking about the rsx hytech combo? if we are, i dunno whats up, cuz i've seen the numbers before. when i was @ the shine street honda-tech meet months back, there was a tech guy from hondata there who was discussing the hytech combo and how much power it made.

by the way, i found a link of the progress/hy-tech car...makes 305 hp @ 8000 RPM and 200 lb.-ft. @ 5800 RPM (estimated flywheel hp)

305 hp, 200 ft/lbs. torque (est. @ crank)

Normally Aspirated, 12 to 1 compression ratio

bore : 86.0mm
stroke: 86.0mm
Wiseco pistons
Carillo rods
Hondata.com ECU mods
Ti valve spring retainers
ACT clutch
IRL valve springs
Ported cyl head
Hy-Tech cam sprockets
Hy-Tech prototype header, 3" exhaust and intake manifold
Cost of engine mods including labor: $7500
Old 05-02-2004, 04:50 PM
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I thought you were talking about the s2000 hytech kit

the Hytech car has hondata SCA is kind of like the official go to for them so prolly on a dyno pack wich on the FWD cars gets another 6-8%


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